Tweaks, peace and love

[Chris 1970]

Everyone has different ears, experiences and fillings…
We can agree that what is better for you is better (Linn tagline).
And what's better for you can change with mood, and also… with time.


What always confuse me in audio forums is the… TWEAK BASHING


From what I understand, tweaks in audio are all about isolation.
Get a better isolation from vibrations and from electrical noise for the most…
to get a better sound, more natural and analogical.


Audio manufacturers – say: Linn – are tweaking all the time, to get a better product: 50% of the quality of the NG KDSM is due to better isolation (said the Linn engineer in chief).

Even if the electronic card is the same, the Klimax Radikal is better than the Akurate Radikal. The only difference is… better isolation.


If we can agree – or not – that TWEAK'S GOAL IS BETTER ISOLATION…

Then:

Speakers positioning is (in part) a tweak.
Stands are tweaks.
Carpets are tweaks.
Curtains are tweaks.
Direct electric line for an audio system is a tweak.
Copper cable that's not nude (!) is a tweak.
…

Don't we all use these things without question?


Cables are a big part of an audio system (inside and outside the boxes and speakers).

But when a cable enter in the conversation, it becomes immediately a sect thing. With believers and non-believers, idiots and scientists.

Is a Naim streamer better than a Linn streamer?
I don't know, I didn't compare.
Some love it, some don't, and it's a matter of taste… everyone is OK with that.

Is a XXX cable better than the standard one?
One can feel it is, after compared. Or not.
But for some, that's like saying: The earth is flat…

Why?

 

[Jail4CEOs2]

Because they learned some equation or factoid in their early twenties in some august institution, and they are thoroughly inoculated against new ideas. Galileo and Kepler be danged....oh...wait...what? And now Cardinal Fang, the comfy chair!

 

[Chris 1970]

Because they learned some equation or factoid in their early twenties in some august institution, and they are thoroughly inoculated against new ideas. Galileo and Kepler be danged....oh...wait...what? And now Cardinal Fang, the comfy chair!

Probably… but I've no problem to be an idiot too

The meaning of this post is: peace and love!
There is no single truth in music and we all tweak at some point!

Debate and exchange about each experience: similar, different or opposite is instructive and fun



PS: it is a part of my speech for the World Presidency…

 

[akamatsu]

I guess I'll have to be the one to state the obvious. I must say that I'm a little disappointed.

The title of this thread should've been; "(What's so Funny 'Bout) Tweaks, Love and Understanding."

 

[Paulssurround]

Everyone has different ears, experiences and fillings…
We can agree that what is better for you is better (Linn tagline).
And what's better for you can change with mood, and also… with time.


What always confuse me in audio forums is the… TWEAK BASHING


From what I understand, tweaks in audio are all about isolation.
Get a better isolation from vibrations and from electrical noise for the most…
to get a better sound, more natural and analogical.


Audio manufacturers – say: Linn – are tweaking all the time, to get a better product: 50% of the quality of the NG KDSM is due to better isolation (said the Linn engineer in chief).

Even if the electronic card is the same, the Klimax Radikal is better than the Akurate Radikal. The only difference is… better isolation.


If we can agree – or not – that TWEAK'S GOAL IS BETTER ISOLATION…

Then:

Speakers positioning is (in part) a tweak.
Stands are tweaks.
Carpets are tweaks.
Curtains are tweaks.
Direct electric line for an audio system is a tweak.
Copper cable that's not nude (!) is a tweak.
…

Don't we all use these things without question?


Cables are a big part of an audio system (inside and outside the boxes and speakers).

But when a cable enter in the conversation, it becomes immediately a sect thing. With believers and non-believers, idiots and scientists.

Is a Naim streamer better than a Linn streamer?
I don't know, I didn't compare.
Some love it, some don't, and it's a matter of taste… everyone is OK with that.

Is a XXX cable better than the standard one?
One can feel it is, after compared. Or not.
But for some, that's like saying: The earth is flat…

Why?

Thank you Chris for this thread and glad you brought up the subject.

In my opinion, the answer is that some people like to encourage willful ignorance.

The majority of people that visit a Hifi Forum are looking for suggestions for help or to get the most out of their current system, and what they can do to upgrade or tweak their system to optimize the performance of what they already have.

I love my Linn system and it has provided fantastic music over a number of years. The thing I love the most about my Linn system is how well it responds to the countless tweaks I have tried over the years, and how I am constantly finding new levels of music enjoyment.

I am in awe of the sound quality I am currently getting, but given the history of the improvements I have seen in my system over the years, I suspect I have even more potential improvements waiting in the future as new ideas and tweaks are tried.

You are quite right about tweaks being about isolation of noise from the mains, providing the cleanest possible power to your Linn components and speakers, mitigating RF and EMI interference, mitigation of vibrations, room acoustic treatment, SO adjustments, optimal torque values for speaker drivers, circuit boards and electronics chassis, as well as proper speaker placement and listening position.

To think that Linn or any other brand of Hifi products can be just taken out of boxes and placed in the room, thinking proper speaker placement is the only thing you have to do and you never have to adjust anything again is ridiculous and absurd.

Linn has never stated that you should not tweak your Linn system to try to optimize their performance. In fact all the upgrades that they have introduced over the years decidedly encourages Linn owners to upgrade their HiFi systems to get the most music enjoyment you can.

I have never been able to figure out how some people can spend countless hours posting about tweaking and adjustments on the LP12, discussing vibrations with products like a Keel and trampoline, proper shelving for the LP12, adjusting torque values and tolerances, signal loss, cleaner power supplies through machined versus non-machined Radikals, Karousel bearings and other Linn tweaks and not understanding that these issues are also prominent in effecting the rest of the electronics and speakers in the rest of their Linn system.

Tweaks are critical to getting the best performance out of my Linn system, and I could not be more happy with the results I have been able to get so far.

Tweaks , Peace and Love

 

[Ron.P]

With age, comes wisdom. The cables that I've settled on after much experimentation, are every bit a component-level influence on the sound of my system.
The wisdom part is: I don't care a whit what anyone else thinks. If folks are happy with lamp cord and courtesy power cables, then peace and love, etc., etc. to them.

 

[Chris 1970]

I guess I'll have to be the one to state the obvious. I must say that I'm a little disappointed.

The title of this thread should've been; "(What's so Funny 'Bout) Tweaks, Love and Understanding."

OK Michael and Troll…

No… you were not the only ones I was thinking about…, as this type of reaction is so regular in the little world of audio forums.

Still – one more time – I couldn't resist to ask again… Why?
And… as regular as it should, your reaction is beautifully sarcastic

Michael and Troll, how many times I upvoted your posts? A lot…
And I will continue as you are passionate people, and I love passionate people… and music.

Michael, sharing your experience of tweaking your stand recently is really interesting, also because we know your personal point of view on many subjects, thanks to all your constructive contributions.

But telling again and again that cables are for idiots… I don't see the point.

 

[Chris 1970]

I have never been able to figure out how some people can spend countless hours posting about tweaking and adjustments on the LP12, discussing vibrations with products like a Keel and trampoline, proper shelving for the LP12, adjusting torque values and tolerances, signal loss, cleaner power supplies through machined versus non-machined Radikals, Karousel bearings and other Linn tweaks and not understanding that these issues are also prominent in effecting the rest of the electronics and speakers in the rest of their Linn system.

It makes sense

 

[Paulssurround]

With age, comes wisdom. The cables that I've settled on after much experimentation, are every bit a component-level influence on the sound of my system.
The wisdom part is: I don't care a whit what anyone else thinks. If folks are happy with lamp cord and courtesy power cables, then peace and love, etc., etc. to them.

Thank you RonP. Well said.

I am glad you have found a combination of cables that give you the sound quality you are happy with.

I agree with you and I don’t care what other people think and I don’t judge their HiFi system.

However, I am not interested in some people‘s dogmatic views that are clearly wrong. Even more surprising is that they have never actually tried the tweak or upgraded components in their system but declare it is a waste of money and snake oil. Their continuous dogma has the effect of many people just not posting because they don’t want to be attacked for their views. Without giving a voice to everyone’s views makes for a far less interesting forum, as many feel they can’t learn anything that is going to improve their HIFi system.

I always find it ironic that discussions and posts on minor tweaks and adjustments on an LP12 are well accepted by the people that make the tweaks. The community generally accepts their observations at face value. However, if someone posts a tweak to a new piece of electronics, cable, power conditioner, or buys a device that improves the sound quality, they are harshly judged as expectation bias, or you should do a blind test.

Tweaks , peace and love

 

[Chris 1970]

Michael & Troll VS. Paul & Chris

Until death follows!


Hope someone see how absurd it is…

 

[Paulssurround]

OK Michael and Troll…

No… you were not the only ones I was thinking about…, as this type of reaction is so regular in the little world of audio forums.

Still – one more time – I couldn't resist to ask again… Why?
And… as regular as it should, your reaction is beautifully sarcastic

Michael and Troll, how many times I upvoted your posts? A lot…
And I will continue as you are passionate people, and I love passionate people… and music.

Michael, sharing your experience of tweaking your stand recently is really interesting, also because we know your personal point of view on many subjects, thanks to all your constructive contributions.

But telling again and again that cables are for idiots… I don't see the point.

I also read other HiFi Forums, and it certainly is common on many forums that some people love to criticize other‘s for tweaking

If these “experts” stereo systems are so good, why do they spend so much time posting on an audio forum trying to criticize people trying out new things and getting the most from their audio experience.

Wouldn't their time be better spent listening to their music?

Tweaking, peace and love

 

[Paulssurround]

Michael & Troll VS. Paul & Chris

Until death follows!


Hope someone see how absurd it is…

There is no chance of some people changing their views.

I certainly will not change my views about the benefits of tweaking, improvements and the pursuit of higher performance potential.

As you say, until death follows

 

[akamatsu]

OK Michael and Troll…

No… you were not the only ones I was thinking about…, as this type of reaction is so regular in the little world of audio forums.

Still – one more time – I couldn't resist to ask again… Why?
And… as regular as it should, your reaction is beautifully sarcastic

Michael and Troll, how many times I upvoted your posts? A lot…
And I will continue as you are passionate people, and I love passionate people… and music.

Michael, sharing your experience of tweaking your stand recently is really interesting, also because we know your personal point of view on many subjects, thanks to all your constructive contributions.

But telling again and again that cables are for idiots… I don't see the point.

It's a reference to an Elvis Costello song.

 

[Johngriffith1512]

There is no chance of some people changing their views.

I certainly will not change my views about the benefits of tweaking, improvements and the pursuit of higher performance potential.

As you say, until death follows

Tweaking is what makes this whole thing a wonderful hobby and not just a purchase. I love listening just as much as I love tinkering.

 

[Paulssurround]

Tweaking is what makes this whole thing a wonderful hobby and not just a purchase. I love listening just as much as I love tinkering.

Absolutely my sentiments as well.

It is like having 2 hobbies at the same time

 

[Newton John]

Mostly harmless. That was my experience of tweaks when I first got into hifi. If they are placebos, at least I could rest easy in the knowledge that I'd left no stone unturned in my quest.

Yet some do work for me. Especially now I've got a better system that reveals more.

Unfortunately, there'll never be peace, love and understanding in hifi or anything else for that matter because too many of us have chips on our shoulders.

The truth of it is that science can't always tell us what sounds better but rather offer possible explanations of why after the event. It pays not to be too dogmatic because we are dealing with a complex interaction of many factors and reductionism might be misleading. Someone said to me that building fine guitars was an art with some science in it. So it is with hifi.

 

[Moomintroll]

It's a reference to an Elvis Costello song.

Yes, I certainly didn’t think we were picking sides. Other than reacting to a humorous comment, I hadn’t even commented on this thread.

I’ve nothing to contribute.

’troll

 

[Chris 1970]

Yes, I certainly didn’t think we were picking sides. Other than reacting to a humorous comment, I hadn’t even commented on this thread.

I’ve nothing to contribute.

’troll

Except that you upvote a lot of tweak bashing posts…
The inspired — I mean it — humorous comment of Michael is sarcastic in the first place…

But this thread is not to judge anyone.

@Paulssurround can be excessive in his responses — because he is really invested in it — as I could have found better words too, and I don't have the Truth either.

I just don't understand why this subject is so divisive, years after years, decades after decades.

@Newton John just made a fine post, but said it's mostly armless…
I must be naive to think that we can talk about this subject with openness, like you (we) do for all the other music subjects on this forum!

Not a big deal!

 

[HollyJohnsen]

I am positively surprised by the interaction between people here in the forum. I read in some forums on Facebook and then the desire for the hobby disappears. I wish you a lot of fun in your discussions and in search of enlightenment.

 

[CounterTenor]

The most frustrating aspect of these kinds of discussions is the claims made from a point of ignorance: I have not tried the X you are suggesting, but based on my one time experience with Y (not X), it can’t possibly work. As well, made by those who never audition a product in their own system.

There is often a fallback argument made by the contrarians regarding “expectation bias”. Would they not have the same preconceived bias when they actually do audition something? “This is likely shite, but I will give it a listen” is a good set up for closed ears under the guise of “critical listening”.

Why even comment on someone’s suggestion if you have not tried it in your own system?