Upgrade and Bass?

[Minicoupeman]

I am lucky. I have upgraded over the last year or so. Reviewers often seem to major on Bass. I am beginning to understand. I ‘had’ bass. Indeed over several systems I have had deep bass but in retrospect it was deep, impressive, but woolly. The higher up the tree I have gone the better the bass. Better defined. Not deeper. Not ‘ in your face’ but much more musical. Tuneful. Easily followed. Your thoughts?

 

[Rayymondo]

Good quality bass is essential in my opinion as it gives a certain richness and deepness to the recording, I have suffered from weak bass in the past after making a couple of wrong moves, but happy to say I do enjoy some nice bass now, only with small standmount speakers - but adding a little subwoofer definitely helped in that respect, as did using EQ on my "media player" software (musicbee).

 

[tackleberry]

That’s where I am now with my speakers.

huge difference to the pseudo bass I’ve had with most other speakers.

 

[CnoEvil]

All about the bass

 

[DomT]

I listen to a lot of funk music or synth bass lines where the bass must be clear and musical as it underpins that type of music. I have tended towards speakers that are not too big for the room, and maybe smaller than normal, so that I can get the bass quality that I want.

And to add that the right amp to match the speakers is essential.

 

[tuga]

I am lucky. I have upgraded over the last year or so. Reviewers often seem to major on Bass. I am beginning to understand. I ‘had’ bass. Indeed over several systems I have had deep bass but in retrospect it was deep, impressive, but woolly. The higher up the tree I have gone the better the bass. Better defined. Not deeper. Not ‘ in your face’ but much more musical. Tuneful. Easily followed. Your thoughts?

There's "deeper" bass – extending lower in frequency – and there's "more" bass – exaggerated in amplitude.
The first is universally good, the second might be good depending on your preference (studies seem to indicate that untrained listeners prefer more/exaggerated bass).

Bass is the most complex aspect of transduction because it depends as much on the room acoustic character as it does on the positioning as it does on the speaker design as it does, to a lesser extent, on the choice of amplification.

 

[pmcuk]

I'm the last person to ask about bass - I'm a bass player! You probably know the old saying "the plumbers' children have no shoes".

My bass rolls off quite quickly since I have small 2-way speakers. Doesn't bother me at all. I'm so used to listening to everything but the bass when I'm onstage!

 

[antonio66]

"the plumbers' children have no shoes".
That really doesn't make any sense to me, although it does remind me of someone on one of the forums quoted 'tarred with the same feather'

Just got it, I think you mean Cobblers

 

[Ceko]

That’s where I am now with my speakers.

huge difference to the pseudo bass I’ve had with most other speakers.

I’ve heard that term before, but what’s pseudo bass?

Regarding this topic, I learned an expensive lesson the past several years. I “upgraded” my speakers towards more and more holograpgic sound. That was from some B&W bookshelves to Monitor Audios to Klipsch. Only to discover that what really gets my juices flowing is tight, well defined bass and not that wooly bass the OP is talking about. So there came a subwoofer. That was allright but still not as tight as with the Monitor Audios I had before. So I started from scratch again, back to Monitor Audio. We’re never going to part again

 

[John (big)]

A friend who was a big player in the car HiFi world used to say re bass "how do you like your steak" likes run from crisp to my choice rarer than French rare ie essentially raw. Bass likes are just as wide.

 

[pmcuk]

"the plumbers' children have no shoes".
That really doesn't make any sense to me, although it does remind me of someone on one of the forums quoted 'tarred with the same feather'

Just got it, I think you mean Cobblers

Ha! I know what I did there. Yes, of course it's cobblers.

But this made me think of a very nice woman I used to live with. Her father was a plumber and when I visited his home it was all immaculate except for the bathroom which was missing tiles and the taps didn't work!

 

[Beobloke]

Having spent time designing subwoofers, I came to the conclusion that, if you get the bass wrong, it’s very, very difficult to get the rest right.

 

[uzzy]

I am lucky. I have upgraded over the last year or so. Reviewers often seem to major on Bass. I am beginning to understand. I ‘had’ bass. Indeed over several systems I have had deep bass but in retrospect it was deep, impressive, but woolly. The higher up the tree I have gone the better the bass. Better defined. Not deeper. Not ‘ in your face’ but much more musical. Tuneful. Easily followed. Your thoughts?

Never had the problem of a Woolly deep bass. I had transmission lines where the problem was the off bass frequency would set the door vibrating if not shut. Once you have experienced deep deep bass delivered with authority and no woolliness it is hard if not impossible to live without it.
The question is how deep do you want to go - my speakers are at -3db at 24 hertz and flat from 28 .. and I have to say they are just bloody magic to me.
Of course there is another thing that comes into play - the amplifier and how well it has a grip on the loudspeakers, so if you are suffering from woolly bass it may just be worth checking the speaker specs and then your amp to see if the latter is up to the job of delivering solid tight bass with authority.

 

[tuga]

Never had the problem of a Woolly deep bass. I had transmission lines where the problem was the off bass frequency would set the door vibrating if not shut. Once you have experienced deep deep bass delivered with authority and no woolliness it is hard if not impossible to live without it.
The question is how deep do you want to go - my speakers are at -3db at 24 hertz and flat from 28 .. and I have to say they are just bloody magic to me.
Of course there is another thing that comes into play - the amplifier and how well it has a grip on the loudspeakers, so if you are suffering from woolly bass it may just be worth checking the speaker specs and then your amp to see if the latter is up to the job of delivering solid tight bass with authority.

"Woolly" or "loose" bass has nothing to do with "extension".

To the best of my knowledge it can be caused by one or a combination of:

• poorly implemented cabinet topology (bass reflex, transmission line),
• poorly designed cabinet construction,
• inadequate amplification (high output impedance),
• room resonances.

 

[lostwin]

"Woolly" or "loose" bass has nothing to do with "extension".

To the best of my knowledge it can be caused by one or a combination of:

• poorly implemented cabinet topology (bass reflex, transmission line),
• poorly designed cabinet construction,
• inadequate amplification (high output impedance),
• room resonances.

Yep, and add to that list resonances from floor voids where room has a suspended floor.

Play some music and then go to the room underneath or next door to check out what you hear - bloated, slow and exaggerated thumps. From your listening chair, whilst it might not be as obvious as you are also getting a lot more direct higher frequency sounds, this muddy bass is all part of what your ears are receiving.

Minimising the floor void resonance by isolating the speakers from the floor (ideally with springs acting as a low pass filter below 10hz) can make a significant difference.

 

[plasticpenguin]

I've had systems where it's had bass big and deep. As with any of the frequencies too much of a good thing can become intolerable if played for long sessions. The trick is to have taut, well defined bass that matches the midrange and high frequencies - or as flat as you can across all the frequencies.

 

[DomT]

Bass is the most complex aspect of transduction because it depends as much on the room acoustic character as it does on the positioning as it does on the speaker design as it does, to a lesser extent, on the choice of amplification.

Then you need to hear my Marantz and Audio Research against my Quad as they sound so completely different in the bass in the same room with the same speakers. The Marantz and Audio Research sound like the speaker size has increased very significantly.

But clearly I think that the point that you are making is choosing the correct speaker in the first place to match the amp that a person already owns. The problem arises when the desire to change amps happens. I remember bringing a Naim SuperNait 3 home and thinking where has that octave of bass gone. The same was true but to a lesser extent with an Accuphase E270.

 

[MF 1000]

I've had systems where it's had bass big and deep. As with any of the frequencies too much of a good thing can become intolerable if played for long sessions. The trick is to have taut, well defined bass that matches the midrange and high frequencies - or as flat as you can across all the frequencies.

That’s when active setups become your friend in achieving as flat a curve as possible across the widest range of frequencies

 

[hiesteem]

I won't knock the bass of ma babies, it's what there meant to do. Been trying to temper the bass for years, given up now, just letting them free to put a smile on my face or to frown.

 

[plasticpenguin]

That’s when active setups become your friend in achieving as flat a curve as possible across the widest range of frequencies

Most companies claim their products are flat, very few actually deliver on that front. That said, synergy between the amp and speakers is essential. This is where, probably, active or powered speakers can be better.