Using music on external/backup drive

[TheFlash]

I'm looking for an elegant-ish and cost-effective solution for occasional use rather than something optimised for my main listening environment.

• The "computer-based" bit of my main system in the Midlands is a Synology NAS hooked up to a Bluesound Node 2 - I use, and am happy with, the internal DAC. I use the BluOS app to select stored music on the NAS (I use iTunes to rip and sort metadata so all files are in ALAC format) and Spotify for stuff I don't own.
  
• I don't currently have an offsite backup of any of the music stored on the NAS so, heeding Wammer warnings in related threads, have just bought a WD My Passport 3TB drive which I will plug in and back up to every month or so. I will take this drive to my man-cave in Kendal for resilience purposes
  
• A significant side benefit would be the ability to access all my music files from that drive rather than just the (least favourite) half of my CD collection which resides in Kendal. Even more occasionally I could take the same drive to the Wam Show, which would be cool.
  

What other ingredients do I need to be able to do this? Obviously I will need a DAC but I'm less concerned about that than with how I can see what is in the library on the hard drive, select something for playback and control that playback. The easy option would be to buy another Bluesound Node 2 which would live in Kendal - that gets me the DAC and also a control app BluOS with which I'm familiar and happy.

£500ish for another Blesound Node 2 is not beyond reach but there may be other ways of achieving the same which i'm just not spotting. I really don't want to get back into LMS (it was solid if a little clunky) and I have no interest in doing Raspberry Pi-based anything - too many IT antibodies. I travel to Kendal with laptop and iPad but there is no permanent computer there.

Should I just go Bluesound Node 2?

 

[MartinC]

Do you have a TV in you 'man cave'? At the simplest you could connect the hard drive to any modern TV and play music directly from that. Assuming you want better sound quality you could use the TVs analogue or digital outputs as the starting point (assuming it has them).

 

[Tony_J]

How about a spare laptop and a USB DAC? You could then use (for example) Media Monkey to display and play the content. Doesn't need to be a high spec laptop. If you don't already have amp/speakers in the mancave, forget the DAC and get an Aego 3: http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/aego-systems/aego3/ and stream from the laptop via Bluetooth. If the SQ is anything like the earlier iterations (I have the Aego 2 for TV duties) they will sound pretty good for the price.

 

[MartinC]

If Bluetooth connectivity becomes an option then connecting the hard drive to a smartphone via a USB cable would be another option as a source.

 

[TheFlash]

Thanks both. I should have been clearer about my Kendal facilities. I have two hifi systems in the man cave, the vintage Pioneer setup I’ll be taking to Wam 2018 at Kegworth and my Michell/Arcam/Celef setup.
(The TV is hooked up to the second (main) system but I don’t consider playing music on my TV speakers to be playing music! I want something which will plug into either system via RCA as this would allow me to use same setup in eg. Kegworth. I also don’t want to use Bluetooth unless necessary).
Tony’s suggestion to use a laptop (I always take my MacBook with me), Media Monkey and a USB DAC is one I hadn’t thought of; I’ll look into this.
Thanks both.

 

[slavedata]

Raspberry Pi connected to the HiFi with the drive USB connected to it. You can configure the Pi with a DAC Hat board like an IQ audio or a dedicated hi res interface to link to an external DAC like an Allo digione board. Pi operated from your mobile phone. Pop over and I will show you.

Dave

 

[TheFlash]

Raspberry Pi connected to the HiFi with the drive USB connected to it. You can configure the Pi with a DAC Hat board like an IQ audio or a dedicated hi res interface to link to an external DAC like an Allo digione board. Pi operated from your mobile phone. Pop over and I will show you.
Dave

Thanks. Despite a career superficially in “IT” (it’s a broad field!) I have IT antibodies when it comes to electronics hence last paragraph of OP ruling out Pi... popping over would be interesting, thanks for this, and a visit may change my mind.

 

[MartinC]

Thanks both. I should have been clearer about my Kendal facilities. I have two hifi systems in the man cave, the vintage Pioneer setup I’ll be taking to Wam 2018 at Kegworth and my Michell/Arcam/Celef setup.
(The TV is hooked up to the second (main) system but I don’t consider playing music on my TV speakers to be playing music! I want something which will plug into either system via RCA as this would allow me to use same setup in eg. Kegworth. I also don’t want to use Bluetooth unless necessary).
Tony’s suggestion to use a laptop (I always take my MacBook with me), Media Monkey and a USB DAC is one I hadn’t thought of; I’ll look into this.
Thanks both.

My main suggestion with the TV was to use it as a way to select the files to play to avoid having to pay for something else with a screen, but a laptop would be a lot nicer to use in this regard. Couldn't tell from the OP how occasional and how minimal you were after  .

 

[TheFlash]

My main suggestion with the TV was to use it as a way to select the files to play to avoid having to pay for something else with a screen, but a laptop would be a lot nicer to use in this regard. Couldn't tell from the OP how occasional and how minimal you were after  .

Gotcha. The laptop is better as it allows playback from backup drive wherever I and my laptop are.

I do intend though to take up slavedata's kind offer of a visit to chat about Pi-based stuff as if it is, or can be made to be, plug-and-play then I'll be a convert. It's just that when other threads have recommended same they end up "simply" recommending that one "simply" installs the latest X, Y or Z operating system or whatever... and I get a brain-freeze. I'm going to man up, whilst reserving the right to wimp out.

 

[bohemian]

Raspberry Pi connected to the HiFi with the drive USB connected to it. You can configure the Pi with a DAC Hat board like an IQ audio or a dedicated hi res interface to link to an external DAC like an Allo digione board. Pi operated from your mobile phone. Pop over and I will show you.

Dave

I wish I were closer, I am plannng to connect a pi in a similar way with JRiver serving the music.

 

[slavedata]

I wish I were closer, I am plannng to connect a pi in a similar way with JRiver serving the music.

Well I'm exhibiting at Kegworth, we can have a chat then. Or even a Saturday evening training session. I can configure Pi's but I'm not an expert like Ronnie (Man in a van)

However 40 years in IT the last 20 teaching it means I can usually flog through IT issues to reach a conclusion.

I also think ripping your CDs to a server and playing it through a DAC  is the way to go for digital music. What has impressed me about the Pi + Vortexbox route has been its ability to give you a house wide high quality streaming system making use of your existing hifi  and TV for minimal outlay.

 

[TheFlash]

The WD My Pasport 3TB arrived this morning: it shrank in the wash! Seriously, from everything I saw online I was expecting it to be the same size as my old Porsche-designed LaCie thing and it is little bigger than a cigarette packet*.

I'm hesitating at step 1: format for the drive. I am popping over to Dave's (slavedata's) tomorrow morning for a Pi teach-in so won't do anything before then but would appreciate any input from wammers who have been there and done that.

• I believe the Synology NAS runs Linux so EXT4 would be the native format and backups are 4-5 times faster with this than with Windows' default NTFS.
  
• I understand the Raspberry Pi is also a Linux machine so EXT4 would tick that box too (NB. I am some way from commiting to a Pi-based solution for the Kendal man-cave and optionally Kegworth)
  
• For completeness, I'm (last few years) a Mac guy though I'm not sure this has any bearing on format the external drive as it will be backing up from the Synology NAS and  playing music (=reading files) from it via <to be confirmed...>.
  
  
  Does it matter what format the drive is in if the device sucking the data out is your average DAC?
  

[*]WD suggests the following depending on operating system

• 
  
  NTFS for Windows
  
• APFS for later MacOS, Mac OS Extended for earlier MacOS
  
• FAT32 or exFAT if a drive needs to be read by both Windows and Mac
  
• and for Linux...well, no obvious mention of Linux actually
  

Thanks for bearing with my numpty questions.

______________

(*despite the well-documented health consequences of smoking, the Cigarette Packet remains the accepted European standard for size estimation. See also Postage Stamp, Bag of Sugar and Wales).

 

[bencat]

Why not load a free version of Logitech Media Server to to your laptop then plug your HD in to there as the Library . Then you can either connect a USB Dac straight from the Laptop in to either of your systems or if you want something a little more controlable then get a 2nd hand O2 Joggler and a cheap USB Dac and plug that in to your system .You then get a touch screen to use to scroll and use your music or you can control it remotely using on of the online Apps.

I have a couple of spare Joggler units already flashed and ready to use so if you want to use one let me know before Kegworth and will bring it along for you .

http://mysqueezebox.com/index/Home

 

[TheFlash]

Why not load a free version of Logitech Media Server to to your laptop then plug your HD in to there as the Library . Then you can either connect a USB Dac straight from the Laptop in to either of your systems or if you want something a little more controlable then get a 2nd hand O2 Joggler and a cheap USB Dac and plug that in to your system .You then get a touch screen to use to scroll and use your music or you can control it remotely using on of the online Apps.

I have a couple of spare Joggler units already flashed and ready to use so if you want to use one let me know before Kegworth and will bring it along for you .

http://mysqueezebox.com/index/Home

Thanks for the response and the Joggler offer, really appreciate both.

To answer your Q directly: because I've hopefully left LMS behind having moved to the Bluesound Node 2 in my main rig and absolutely do not want to be tied to my laptop as part of the playback chain (wherever I am in the country). My iPad goes just about everywhere the laptop goes. I'm happy to use something like iPeng as a remote control (as I did until a couple of months ago when using LMS on the Synology NAS) or the rather slicker BluOS app as a remote control; I wouldn't want anything other than the external drive and DAC to be in the playback (music supply) chain if at all avoidable (eg. Arcam's rPlay, various other Bluetooth solutions).

Will update when I'v been to Dave's tomorrow for a Pi exploration.

 

[TheFlash]

Thanks for the response and the Joggler offer, really appreciate both.

To answer your Q directly: because I've hopefully left LMS behind having moved to the Bluesound Node 2 in my main rig and absolutely do not want to be tied to my laptop as part of the playback chain (wherever I am in the country). My iPad goes just about everywhere the laptop goes. I'm happy to use something like iPeng as a remote control (as I did until a couple of months ago when using LMS on the Synology NAS) or the rather slicker BluOS app as a remote control; I wouldn't want anything other than the external drive and DAC to be in the playback (music supply) chain if at all avoidable (eg. Arcam's rPlay, various other Bluetooth solutions).

Will update when I'v been to Dave's tomorrow for a Pi exploration.

I realised after switching the laptop off that this might sound silly so let me clarify:

• I obviously need something to act as the streamer from the drive to the DAC; that is, I presume, where the Pi might come in
  
• I would like to leave the streamer in Kendal most of the time but be able to take it to say Kegworth if required (vs. using laptop as streamer and being unable to play music up north if I travel light and laptop-less)
  
• I prefer to avoid or at least minimise wireless connections in the playback chain where at all possible - though they're fine in the control chain
  

I hope that makes slightly more sense, though it may still be obvious that I'm pushing at the boundaries of my technical comfort zone...

 

[TheFlash]

Well that was a fun and informative morning. Thanks to slavedata Dave for his hospitality, some lovely sounds and the sharing of his knowledge and experiences. I'm envious of the man-cave of course. It's great to know another local wammer and I look forward to hosting the return match.

On the central Pi-or-not consideration: Dave demonstrated his in-depth knowledge of things Pi - configuring, hardware options (onboard or separate DAC), the Squeezer app he uses to drive LMS as the streamer, Vortexbox as a virtual server... I learned a lot. Crikey, he even offered to configure my setup for me! However, at the risk of baring my pathetic timidity to all, I struggle to see myself going down this route. My IT career was spent in applications, packaged software implementation project management etc and not at the coalface of tech - maybe I'm having flashbacks to my uni days but I could feel my antibodies agitating even through Dave's patient and reassuring explanation.

I'll let you know where I land. Meanwhile, I look forward to seeing Dave again at the Kegworth show and setting up that return match.

Thanks again, Dave, for an eye-opening morning.

 

[bencat]

Hi Nigel personally I use a Pi as my main streamer and will be using one at Kegworth (seperate unit which i am giving away with the system) . Frankly when used with Max2play which does all the hard work it is very easy to use and just leave to get on with things.

The reason I did not suggest it was you made clear that you did not want to go down that route and I respected your wish not to do so. I think it makes the most sens in that if you want it to the Pi can be your Server / DAC and Player in a single box if that is what you want and again not that hard to either set up or complete.

Only thing missing is a screen and this can be overcome with either an App like Ipeng or somehting like the Joggler . If you want to go even further Max2play have a complete player with screen on there website which is a direct replacement for the SBT . But I must admit I have not put one together so happy to give my thumbs up to the software side but no real knowledge of the hardware .

 

[TheFlash]

Hi Nigel personally I use a Pi as my main streamer and will be using one at Kegworth (seperate unit which i am giving away with the system) . Frankly when used with Max2play which does all the hard work it is very easy to use and just leave to get on with things.

The reason I did not suggest it was you made clear that you did not want to go down that route and I respected your wish not to do so. I think it makes the most sens in that if you want it to the Pi can be your Server / DAC and Player in a single box if that is what you want and again not that hard to either set up or complete.

Only thing missing is a screen and this can be overcome with either an App like Ipeng or somehting like the Joggler . If you want to go even further Max2play have a complete player with screen on there website which is a direct replacement for the SBT . But I must admit I have not put one together so happy to give my thumbs up to the software side but no real knowledge of the hardware .

Appreciate this, as no doubt will others looking similarly to explore options.

I do get frustrated with myself when I see how I'm hesitating as I've clearly bought the plug-and-play or set-and-forget (if only) mantra big time and lost touch with my programming/IT roots in doing so. But I am a long way from being the kind of guy who finds relaxation in such technical pursuits like some of this parish clearly do. I actually find it stressful. For example, I never quite cracked how to get Spotify working on LMS and then they pulled the plug on it; I read here about using Spotty instead and it all made sense but I somehow never got around to sorting it - those antibodies again perhaps.

I may just have to resign myself to not being one of those folk who can put together a lovely system out of lollipop sticks and sticky back plastic for 29p and can sit back not only to enjoy the music it produces but do so with a glow of smug satisfaction justifiable pride...

 

[bencat]

Nigel the Pi is a very versatile unit and if what you want is to get in to programming etc then there is huge scope to satisfy that side of your personality . If however you are like me with zero programming knowledge and little if any technical skills then the Pi has a number of pre programmed and set up software downloads whihc asl long as you can download a file and write it to an SD card will doo all the work for you . I have no real idea how these work but they do and with the occasional update (somehting we have all learned with any software ) it then just works .

Some users love the fine details and like to make sure all things are added and set up and adjusted as they want . Others and I include myself in this just want to load set up and forget about the tech and listen to the music . Both options are available.