Using XLR or RCA outputs on cd player

egg1dog

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Good morning.

Having bought my Wilson WP7's back from Batteredhaggis last year (shout out to Jamie he is a top guy :^ ) I have been enjoying my system immensely, especially during the last few weeks.

My cd player has both xlr and rca outputs, the xlr are louder as the output level is higher but if you match the gain (as best i can by adjusting the gain on my preamp) so the rca output is the same loudness (to my ears) my question ......is the xlr output more dynamic or should the rca output be exactly the same dynamically. I've experimented doing this as the rca is a valve output - details from the manual here....

 The balanced output is 'true balanced' with 4 x PCM1704K DAC Chips (two per channel).

2 x 6922 tubes are also utilised for the RCA outputs, allowing the listener to choose either full solid state (XLR) or valve (RCA) output to suit their tastes

I've been experimenting and sometimes I feel they are the same but then on other occasions I definitely think the xlr output is more dynamic. Is that my ears playing tricks on me(or possibly I haven't matched the gain properly!) as I've always used the xlr outputs in the past or should they dynamically be the same if levels are matched? Just curious to get some comments on this? Its been fun experimenting I enjoy listening to both but not sure which output I prefer now !!! :whistle:

 

MartinC

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Given one output uses valves and the other doesn't there is obvious scope for these to sound different, beyond the usual potential advantage of balanced connections offering better noise rejection.

Ultimately the answer has to be to use the one you prefer, which sounds like it might be balanced?

 
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greybeard

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Balanced output, is usually twice that of unbalanced, 4v against 2v.

 

Nopiano

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We know that louder usually sounds better, and even though you think you’ve levelled down, you may not have.  It’s hard to be sure without a meter.  (I had a similar experience swapping from rca to xlr from my streamer, but I can adjust my amp’s input sensitivity to match)
I have also read that higher inputs to some valve amps gives better results, but yours are presumably SS.  As Martin says, the different output stage will probably be the biggest influence, however.  In the nicest way, the valves can only add distortion, albeit euphonic, so maybe you like the more accurate output?  

 

egg1dog

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We know that louder usually sounds better, and even though you think you’ve levelled down, you may not have.  It’s hard to be sure without a meter.  (I had a similar experience swapping from rca to xlr from my streamer, but I can adjust my amp’s input sensitivity to match)
I have also read that higher inputs to some valve amps gives better results, but yours are presumably SS.  As Martin says, the different output stage will probably be the biggest influence, however.  In the nicest way, the valves can only add distortion, albeit euphonic, so maybe you like the more accurate output?  
I'm torn between the two outputs now - the valve rca definitely does something nice to the vocals and overall presentation but my ears are telling me (I think) the xlr output is more dynamic. Not really an issue just have to decide which one i prefer ! I've always in the past just used the balanced output but when you're locked up looking for things to do I thought I would experiment. Interesting results!

 

Lurch

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Maybe try some tube Rolling whilst you have time on your hands. That way you could end up with the best of both worlds. 

 
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Speedskater

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I'm torn between the two outputs now - the valve rca definitely does something nice to the vocals and overall presentation but my ears are telling me (I think) the xlr output is more dynamic. Not really an issue just have to decide which one i prefer ! I've always in the past just used the balanced output but when you're locked up looking for things to do I thought I would experiment. Interesting results!
All that is doubtful, the difference between RCA and XLR interconnect systems is background noise.

The differences you heard were probably do to some overlooked variable like not exactly the same volume.

 
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rabski

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All that is doubtful, the difference between RCA and XLR interconnect systems is background noise.

The differences you heard were probably do to some overlooked variable like not exactly the same volume.
The major difference here is that the single-ended output goes through a valve stage, the balanced does not.

With that in mind, I would be very susprised if they didn't sound somewhat different.

 
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Speedskater

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I didn't read the fine print close enough.

It's not really about the differences between RCA and XLR interconnect systems.

So it comes down to a preference question. Everyone is entitled to their own preference, there is no right or wrong answer.

 
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Non-Smoking Man

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Good morning.

Having bought my Wilson WP7's back from Batteredhaggis last year (shout out to Jamie he is a top guy :^ ) I have been enjoying my system immensely, especially during the last few weeks.

My cd player has both xlr and rca outputs, the xlr are louder as the output level is higher but if you match the gain (as best i can by adjusting the gain on my preamp) so the rca output is the same loudness (to my ears) my question ......is the xlr output more dynamic or should the rca output be exactly the same dynamically. I've experimented doing this as the rca is a valve output - details from the manual here....

 The balanced output is 'true balanced' with 4 x PCM1704K DAC Chips (two per channel).

2 x 6922 tubes are also utilised for the RCA outputs, allowing the listener to choose either full solid state (XLR) or valve (RCA) output to suit their tastes

I've been experimenting and sometimes I feel they are the same but then on other occasions I definitely think the xlr output is more dynamic. Is that my ears playing tricks on me(or possibly I haven't matched the gain properly!) as I've always used the xlr outputs in the past or should they dynamically be the same if levels are matched? Just curious to get some comments on this? Its been fun experimenting I enjoy listening to both but not sure which output I prefer now !!! :whistle:
Ive just looked at the 6 Moons review of your pre amp - the Esoteric CO3, curious to know whether that has a balanced input option, or not. It doesnt. It is designed as a pure unbalnced circuit. It does have balanced socketry, but the review is at pains to emphasise the circuitry is only pseudo balanced.

This being the case I would anticipate that the unbalanced connection from the CD player to the RCA input of the pre amp would be the 'purist' route irrespective of the fact that the RCA output of the CD player is valve driven. That it is valve driven might improve it further.

It could be argued that you are not giving the balanced output of the CD player a chance to shine unless you provide it with a fully balanced pre amp and, thence, to a fully balanced power amp.

There is something to be said for the benefits of noise cancellation of fully balanced systems. I presume that the pre-power connection throughout the test was via fully balanced circuitry (having checked out what I already know - that your Plinius has both balanced and unbalanced connections)? If this is the case then when the RCA cable was introduced between the CD player and the pre amp then the signal was unbalanced at first and then balanced from the pre amp to the power amp. I dont think there is anything wrong in doing this (delaying the balancing till later) but my experience tells me you shouldnt do the reverse - you shouldnt go unbalanced having started out balanced). But that's an aside only.

I am wondering if another interesting way of going about this would be to compare the system completely balanced (even if its only 'pseudo' balanced (whatever that means) with the Esoteric, and completely UNbalanced using RCA circuitry throughout from the CD player to the Plinius.

Given that the Esoteric has 'vanishing noise and distortion specs' (Six Moons review) there may be less to be gained from noise reduction (one of the advantages of balanced connectivity) and more to be gained from full use of the CD players valve output stage via unbalnced circuitry throughout the whole chain.

Jack NSM

 
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