Valve prices....

M

MallyMad

Guest
So I've been looking at EL34s to upgrade an AVC amp with in the future - how come there's such a price difference? Even between the same brand ie Mullard and Svetlana for instance.

Also do I have to replace them all as a quad or can you change them out one at a time as funds allow or will this just produce a horrible sound?

As for 6n3ps - I've taken purite norths advice on them - but does the same apply?

Anyone got any good recommendations as to what I could go for?

 

Jazid

Wammer
Wammer Plus
Oct 13, 2009
4,820
1,524
193
London
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Assuming its a stereo push-pull or PSE amp then yes, you have to change them in matched pairs (per channel) to keep distortion low and extend valve life, ideally you'd replace all four with a matched quad for channel matching. Doing this with used tubes is all but impossible without a good stock to sample from, and a tube tester. What is sold on fleabay as matched is almost always erm, umm, not quite exactly as described shall we say and EL34s tend to get a hard life so buying second hand is at best a risk. That leaves you looking at new which means NOS or modern production stuff. Modern stuff is getting better by and large and getting matched quads affordably is easy, the tubes WILL be new, and quite possibly well matched. NOS is often,erm, umm, not quite exactly as described shall we say unless you get them from a reputable trade source, and they will cost. So why bother? Well many think NOS sound better, and pretty much certainly the old Mullard/Philips/Siemens/ etc are better made with better materials and will last a lot longer, and have much higher resale values. Prices for old EL34s are further pushed up because they are used in guitar amps, and driven very hard in such amps for the crunch and breakup sound they can produce. Here again there are favourites, and NOS are favoured not least for recreating the authentic sound of sixties amps. Many here favour Svetlana winged C era Russian EL34s, and if you are lucky you can find these for sensible money. Some like Siemens EL34s (RFT made) as cheaper available NOS but this is subjective and others on here disagree. Pretty much consensus between hifi and guitar is that NOS Mullards sound fab, you can work out what this does to the price :D

 
M

MallyMad

Guest
Brilliant. Think I'm gonna go down the Svetlana Winged C path eventually but there's a few bargains that's for sure! What about mixing and matching valves? Ie 2 mullard 2 svetlana? Also noticed expensive Chinese valves kicking about. Are they any good at £250. The Sveltanas are £100.

 

meninblack

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Jul 20, 2005
24,220
1,359
208
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
I tried Winged-C Svetlanas (£34 each plus VAT for NOS; £26 for the new production ones from a different factory) but they didn't last 5 minutes. Currently using JJ Tesla E34L (£11.25 each + VAT :D ) which have been excellent.

 

meninblack

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Jul 20, 2005
24,220
1,359
208
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
HERE

There is VAT and carriage to add, I think I paid a tad over £60 for a matched quad.

 
M

MallyMad

Guest
Yeah that's pretty cool. Think I'm gonna try those Teslas as well. But there are a few ebaybargains....

 

Jazid

Wammer
Wammer Plus
Oct 13, 2009
4,820
1,524
193
London
AKA
James
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Are you quite sure they are bargains?

Please don't buy expensive Chinese tubes, you can get good ones for the same money:roll:

 
M

MallyMad

Guest
I dunno if they are bargains mate. Electro harmonic £43,svetlana £55 or electro harmonics £47. Matched quads. There's also a tube amp doctor tad there for £25. These look like bargains to me. I take it each would have a slightly different sound?

Whats wrong with the Chinese valves? They look awrite!

 

steve 57

Wammer Plus
Wammer Plus
Dec 7, 2008
1,142
653
178
east yorks, , UK
AKA
steve
HiFi Trade?
  1. Yes
  2. No
The great thing about audio is you cant hear whats not there .. And all the Chinese valves miss more music out that the original design/ production (nos) valve .. But as one cant hear whats missing.. You have have to have a comparator......many are very happy with modern valves

back in the 1930's they really knew how to make valves that missed much less out during the amplification process...

 

Tel

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 13, 2006
30,433
668
173
Hove Actually
AKA
Kevin
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
Not a fan then Tel?
I am just wondering on what basis you think they 'look alright' and 'look like bargains to me' and 'there are a few ebaybargains' ?

 

simon g

Senior Wammer
Wammer Plus
Sep 11, 2006
2,884
2,155
193
Lincolnshire Coast
AKA
Simon
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
There's an elephant in the room here.

The AVC amp will need to be biased (unless they've changed deign of late to an auto-bias?) for any replacement valves you might use. And here's the slight difficulty. AVC have a somewhat strange attitude to customer relationships ~ they won't give you any details of bias settings and usually insist that the amp is returned to them for re-valving. I believe that they won't even do that if you didn't buy it new from them. You can find out the bias settings, but I would advise that you ask a competent person to do the biasing ~ don't bugger about the insides of a valve amp yourself (some large voltages in there!)

Frankly, it's better to look at changing the signal valves first ~ they have a great effect on the sound, IME. And they don't need biasing!

 

Tel

Wammer
Wammer
Aug 13, 2006
30,433
668
173
Hove Actually
AKA
Kevin
HiFi Trade?
  1. No
There's an elephant in the room here.The AVC amp will need to be biased (unless they've changed deign of late to an auto-bias?) for any replacement valves you might use. And here's the slight difficulty. AVC have a somewhat strange attitude to customer relationships ~ they won't give you any details of bias settings and usually insist that the amp is returned to them for re-valving. I believe that they won't even do that if you didn't buy it new from them. You can find out the bias settings, but I would advise that you ask a competent person to do the biasing ~ don't bugger about the insides of a valve amp yourself (some large voltages in there!)

Frankly, it's better to look at changing the signal valves first ~ they have a great effect on the sound, IME. And they don't need biasing!
The elephant was discussed here!

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?89589-Some-simple-explanations-please

 

Forum statistics

Threads
115,226
Messages
2,472,377
Members
70,573
Latest member
aiden.b

Latest Articles

Staff online