vintage naim - bargain or pain in the arse???

[paulfromcamden]

Thanks for all the advice in response to my amp questions a few days ago - still mulling things over while I keep an eye out for a good deal on some speakers

I'm kinda drawn to the vintage Naim pre/power gear, (sound suited to rock, lots of opportunity for tweaking, groovy looking black boxes) but a bit worried that they could turn out to be a royal pain in the arse

.

Questions:

How important is it to have a recent service (re-capping?) - am I likely to end up shelling out £££s in a year or so?

Does the pre and power REALLY have to be 12"s apart??

Are they tricky to match speakers to? I've read Dynaudios will just sound OTT on Naim for example...

There seem to be lots of modded units around. Worth a punt or best avoided?

Anything else I should be aware of???

Cheers

Paul

 

[Guest]

dave where are you?

 

[Davewhityetagain]

paulfromcamden wrote:

Thanks for all the advice in response to my amp questions a few days ago - still mulling things over while I keep an eye out for a good deal on some speakersI'm kinda drawn to the vintage Naim pre/power gear, (sound suited to rock, lots of opportunity for tweaking, groovy looking black boxes) but a bit worried that they could turn out to be a royal pain in the arse

.

Questions:

How important is it to have a recent service (re-capping?) - am I likely to end up shelling out £££s in a year or so?

Does the pre and power REALLY have to be 12"s apart??

Are they tricky to match speakers to? I've read Dynaudios will just sound OTT on Naim for example...

There seem to be lots of modded units around. Worth a punt or best avoided?

Anything else I should be aware of???

Cheers

Paul

Being Naim and being left on all the time if its over 8 years old it will need re capping

Lots is said by Naim owners (some) about putting this box on one shelf and another so far away.

If you have any hi fi by any company thats so sensertive as to its placement its not worth owning

I had Naim 202 200 stageline and a lot of power supplies it made no differance which was placed on which shelf

Any Naim owner who can tell the differance might be talking bollocks, if someone tells you they can ask them to prove it sit them in a chair make them close their eyes move boxes around switch on cd player cover hi fi with sheet and ask them to tell you what you have done.

Naim talk alot of crap about how stable there amplifiers are, saying stable into this that and the other

But in reality some owners of some recent amplifiers have sent power amps to Naim to be modded because of problems with B&W speakers

Its not the speakers fault its the way Naim amplifiers are built

Some Naim owners go on about " B&W" problems thats because they are Naim Sheep and are :naimee:they think the sun shines out of naims ass its only Naim amps with a problem the speakers are fine its Naim amplifier thats ? got a problem

that said 202 200 with cdx2 very nice

 

[paulfromcamden]

Cheers - really don't fancy shelling out on a service as soon as I get them... fine if you've paid a couple of grand for your gear but a bit silly for 32/110s...

 

[George 47]

paulfromcamden wrote:

Thanks for all the advice in response to my amp questions a few days ago - still mulling things over while I keep an eye out for a good deal on some speakersI'm kinda drawn to the vintage Naim pre/power gear, (sound suited to rock, lots of opportunity for tweaking, groovy looking black boxes) but a bit worried that they could turn out to be a royal pain in the arse

.

Questions:

How important is it to have a recent service (re-capping?) - am I likely to end up shelling out £££s in a year or so?

Does the pre and power REALLY have to be 12"s apart??

Are they tricky to match speakers to? I've read Dynaudios will just sound OTT on Naim for example...

There seem to be lots of modded units around. Worth a punt or best avoided?

Anything else I should be aware of???

Cheers

Paul

Paul,

There is a lot of rubbish said about Naim amps (and I am probably going to add to it) but here is my experience:

The older amps represent a really good deal at the moment provided you like their sound.

They are best suited (but don't exclude) rock/lively jazz and are in nice looking black boxes. My impressions of living with them for years were that they were not 'realistic' in the hifi sense, not very dimensional, but were exceptional fun. After a few minutes I found I could forget the brightness etc. and really start to enjoy their upfront and dramatic portrayal of music.

Try and get one less than 6/7 years old or one that is recently recapped. It makes a difference and can be a little costly to recap, about £200-300 per piece of kit.

Distance apart, not really a big problem. Putting the pre-amp on the power amp is a bit of a no no (as it is with most amps) but parallel can be quite close. Just makes sure it does not sound 'congested'.

Matching with speakers is important as it is with every speaker. Try to avoid 'really bright' speakers and try to get speakers that will allow the amps to show off their pace, ryhthmn and timing. More important please use with Naim cable. They do not work well with fancy cables and could become a little unstable. But as Naim cable is sensibly priced that is normally not a problem.

Watch out for modded versions, some are OK, others poor. If you want Naim to service your amps avoid modded ones they may refuse to touch them. A really positive part of owning Naim amps is that they will service them, even old ones. Now try that for some Japanese amps...

Bottom line get a reasonable looking set of amps (a good indicator of how they have been treated), make sure you like the sound (it is very infectious) and then just enjoy yourself and don't worry about what others think. They will also be an excellent investment and you will proably recover most of your money when you upgrade (assuming you want to get a better Naim).

j:Hey have fun.

 

[kiaora]

I should takes Dave's advice with a pinch of salt. Basic stuff is something he does not understand. Lets figure. Amplifiers as in power. Normally big(ish) transformer. By product= mechanical noise not to mention electro magnetic field. Preamp. This bit does the amplification of signal up to workable level for power amp. Best kept away from power amp/supply. This is not, as Dave suggests bollocks. Lets think for a minute. a) Manufacturers of amps in multiple boxes are conning you and there is absolutely no difference in performance than an equally powerful integrated amp or b) Dave is a hifi Guru and can't hear what we (I have a pre/power combo) pretend to hear.

It is well known that B&W Nautilus loudspeakers can be difficult loads when driven hard. I've witnessed this at a couple of dealers. I was reliably informed that Naim Audio modified the protection circuit on some of their amps so that they could accommodate the larger Nautilus. This "mod" is now not a mod as Naim have incorporated into amp range.

For Dave to say "It's not the speakers fault it's the way Naim make amplifiers" had me pissing myself.

Frankly, I don't think that Dave knows his arse from his elbow. Have a look at some of the "advice" he's given to others. It's like playing trumps. But as always Dave's the joker!

Sure, this is a 'Fun(ny)" Forum but for heavens sake please do some proper research before taking Dave the Experts advice/comments seriously. He seems to have had some sort of bad experience and just can't let go. Sad really.

If you can get 62/72 pre and either 140/160/180 power these are mighty fine combos and can be had for between £3-600 depending on age,condition etc. There are many alternatives to Naim servicing.

Oh and I'm not one of those sheep people Dave.

K

 

[Davewhityetagain]

kiaora wrote:

I should takes Dave's advice with a pinch of salt. Basic stuff is something he does not understand. Lets figure. Amplifiers as in power. Normally big(ish) transformer. By product= mechanical noise not to mention electro magnetic field. Preamp. This bit does the amplification of signal up to workable level for power amp. Best kept away from power amp/supply. This is not, as Dave suggests bollocks. Lets think for a minute. a) Manufacturers of amps in multiple boxes are conning you and there is absolutely no difference in performance than an equally powerful integrated amp or b) Dave is a hifi Guru and can't hear what we (I have a pre/power combo) pretend to hear.

Naim sheep have little boxes napsc big thick metal boxes with little transformers in they claim it makes a big differance not me its one thing to put pre and power on seperate shelves thats a good idea but to say a little box needs to be as far away as pos is crap also the quality differance some people claim is stupid

It is well known that B&W Nautilus loudspeakers can be difficult loads when driven hard. I've witnessed this at a couple of dealers. I was reliably informed that Naim Audio modified the protection circuit on some of their amps so that they could accommodate the larger Nautilus. This "mod" is now not a mod as Naim have incorporated into amp range.

For Dave to say "It's not the speakers fault it's the way Naim make amplifiers" had me pissing myself.

go and piss your self them I have used most of the nautilus range with loads of amplifiers no problem I asked the guys at B&W if they have this trouble Naim owners have with other amplifiers answer no some amps by many companies not enough power but naim problem not the same

Frankly, I don't think that Dave knows his arse from his elbow. Have a look at some of the "advice" he's given to others. It's like playing trumps. But as always Dave's the joker!

think what you think but been messing with hi fi 30 odd years and get to play with most kit on the market thanks to knowing many dealers and makers i only comment on what I play with (apart from art speakers)

Sure, this is a 'Fun(ny)" Forum but for heavens sake please do some proper research before taking Dave the Experts advice/comments seriously. He seems to have had some sort of bad experience and just can't let go. Sad really.

had bad time with twats running naim but I often have a good word for the kit and even tonight when someone was asking for set ups for 3k my choice was for a naim cd player so get yer facts right

So if you want to comment on my posts and have a troll do so, but if would be better if you got your facts right,

as you said at the start of your post lets think a minute........why not take your own advice or you too thick to do that

you say your not a Naim sheep you sure?

 

[George 47]

paulfromcamden wrote:

Cheers - really don't fancy shelling out on a service as soon as I get them... fine if you've paid a couple of grand for your gear but a bit silly for 32/110s...

Paul,

Right, see where you are coming from. Go for it!!!!!!!!!!

Try to get as new a model as you can and makes sure it works (all the inputs mind) and then just use it. Old amps can sound a little 'tired' and as Kiaora has said there are alternatives to using Naim for recaps, but they are still a shade expensive.

Don't worry it too much a nice 32/110 or 42/140 will give you a really nice lively amp with huge fun factor. I think you will find it really difficult to get as good a sounding amp at these sort of prices and certainly no new ones that I am aware of will give you that magical sound.

GUYS can we help out Paul here not play politics; it gives the wrong impression to new members.

Hey let's have fun.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

This "mod" is now not a mod as Naim have incorporated into amp range.

So it was a mod for sometime, but now they do it to all amplifiers just in case they buy B&W pity they did not get it right before amps went on sale thats whats R&D is all about

 

[yoda900]

I sense another one of those threads that could get personal and lead to red cards............. Never mind trumps

Dave the joker

Now that Is funny :raoflmfao: :raoflmfao: :raoflmfao:

 

[purplepleaser]

Can I join in.

Buy Sugden

Lee:minikiev:

 

[AdamK]

Well I'll try and be objective, butI do own a lot of Naim Olive boxes.

Value wise the Olive stuff is great value at present. A 72/250 combo is readily available s/hand. Chrome bumper stuff is now pretty old and I think olive is better.

Modded stuff by Avondale audio is supposedly brill - check over on Pink Fish forum . The very word 'avondale' is banned from the Naim forum. I have never head any. Once modded I doubt Naim would carry out any further work on a unit.

Not sure about Dynaudios but there are plenty of speakers to suit (FFS don't bother listening to any Naim speakers).

Besides the Naim cabling Chord stuff works well (heresy in some naim minds). I don't think any brand is at its best simply stacked one on top of another and Naim is no different.

Give it a go I say.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

yoda900 wrote:

I sense another one of those threads that could get personal and lead to red cards............. Never mind trumpsDave the joker

Now that Is funny :raoflmfao: :raoflmfao: :raoflmfao:

I liked that too :raoflmfao:

Seeing how daft that poster is, I mean he might be real but oldrudolph posted

"Dave where are you" so it could be him playing silly buggers :lmao:I should have added buy an LP12 to go with it or do not buy Naim buy an AV amp :raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

 

[yoda900]

I agree with Purplepleaser

Go for the Sugden A21 at £600 in private classified if you can stretch to it.

Haggle as is every mans right but it is an astonishing piece of kit.

I bought one for my nephew and I also own Sugden. Used daily and never a problem.

Makes music not hi-fi. The antithisis of Naim which is not bad merely very very different.

Enjoy.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

(FFS don't bother listening to any Naim speakers).

Thats what I said to the guy who designed the new ones

 

[yoda900]

Have you heard the DBls

Not for me i'm certain

 

[kiaora]

Tut Tut Dave. Red letter day is it?

Gosh. 30 years man and boy. When you say that you "get to play with most kit on the market" what do you mean. Do you borrow it and assess at home or just swing by a dealers and listen for a minute or two? Perhaps they (dealers) just like to indulge you. Afterall, anyone can collect audio equipment and it would seem that this is your modus operandi!

Back to the point.

Dave. Why are you over reacting to a smallish degree of critisism? Is it not you who likes to indulge in a little pleasure in the critisism of other views?

Do you believe that you of all people should not be subjected to what you sow?

As for the "troll" comment it seems that you are on the back foot. Why don't you understand the question, give a reasoned answer sprinkled with whatever flavouring you fancy and the guy will put it in the mix with any other responses he gets. As for the "It's all shite" attitude, that will only endear you to no one and earn you the deserved reputation of know all f**kall

People like different things. They respond to different sound presentations and aesthetics. Your clueless in lots of peoples opinions but so are they to yours.

You are/were giving biased inacurate advice probably based on your "bad time with twats running Naim" God knows what that means but obviously it's a people thing and not their gear!

Get with the programme.

I was told by a dealer that the "mod" was de rigure!

K

Do you like the music of Frank Sinatra?

 

[Biscuit]

in my early years I used to really want my Mum to buy kiaora orange squash because I liked the label, but she would only buy robinsons because the other stuff was 'lower class'

 

[purplepleaser]

Bravo Biccy

Lee