What makes a good speaker.

G

Guest

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What exactly makes a good speaker. I've been listening to the Lumleys for a good day now and the midrange is actually very good but its at the expense of bass and a treble that on occasions sounds like a firework screeching and blazing a trail. If i can hear it why can't the designer:Not Sure:. Its as if speakers have greatness snatched from them by one wrong move. No matter whether its a horn or two way.three way or 10 cones they all have to act seamlessly together. I'm sure we've all had a speaker that does so well in one department only to be let down by something else in the chain.Why is good speaker design so hard to implement. Is itjust a matter of cost or are there many other factors involved.

Right get your gloves on and come out swinging:fight:

 
G

Guest

Guest
a lot of speakers aren't so much designed as chosen components, as everyone has different ideas of what's right and wrong, perhaps the designer thinks they are the dogs danglies

 
G

Guest

Guest
Well i don't mind a speaker being a master rather being a jack of all trades but they should also tell you the kit they tested it with. I think the Lumley's are more for classical

 
M

Mr Coherent

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Total musical cohesion and seemless intergration coupled with top to bottom linearity and tonal accuracy (not much to ask I know, but there are speakers out there that do this for not a lot of outlay) accept nothing less if you wish to get closer to real feel of music IMO

 

Papa Lazarou

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Mr Coherent wrote:

Total musical cohesion and seemless intergration coupled with top to bottom linearity and tonal accuracy (not much to ask I know, but there are speakers out there that do this for not a lot of outlay) accept nothing less if you wish to get closer to real feel of music IMO
Care to name some Tony (at real-world prices)?

 

JamPal

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IME, price is not the key element, nor exotic materials. Coherence is all, these MA's have it, my Rega's had it (when positioned properly) and those Hansens we heard yesterday had it in abundance. Yet it is often over looked.. shame really as many good boxes, such as those Lumleys are clearly designed form the wrong starting point.

We proved at the lst bake off that you can sling all of the most expensive and exotic bits of kit together and make a system that doesn't work at all well. Yet some carefully matched coherent components will always work well and often out perform more exotic kit that has not had as much care taken over matching.

EDIT:

Tony, you beat me too it.
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A

adam

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To me a good speakers is a speaker you can listen to for hours on end,it just plays the music,you get no fatigue,and are immersed in the sound,a impressive speaker is one that you initionally go WOW to,but half and hour you get tired of it.

 
U

Umberto

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Papa Lazarou wrote:

Mr Coherent wrote:
Total musical cohesion and seemless intergration coupled with top to bottom linearity and tonal accuracy (not much to ask I know, but there are speakers out there that do this for not a lot of outlay) accept nothing less if you wish to get closer to real feel of music IMO
Care to name some Tony (at real-world prices)?
Yeah ..go on
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G

Guest

Guest
adam wrote:

To me a good speakers is a speaker you can listen to for hours on end,it just plays the music,you get no fatigue,and are immersed in the sound,a impressive speaker is one that you initially go WOW to,but half and hour you get tired of it.
;)Oh yes many a dealer demo than turns into WTF have i bought two weeks later. The moment anyone says this speaker grabs you by the lapels i'm already walking. Adam much of what you describe is true. The Hansens we listened to yesterday had detail in an embarrassing abundance but it was made to feel effortless. In fact for the 20 mins we listened to them the effect was of being transported to a much nicer and relaxing place. Downside. Well in the real world we don't have lounges that big and although JJ assured us they weren't fussy a bout placement they were still big intrusive buggers . Whats more to the point is they were the babies of the range:shock:

 

TIU

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At least one bass/midrange driver and a tweeter, in a box.

No, one that does not colour the music but reproduces it faithfully and retains detail at its volume extremes.

 

Biscuit

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like everything else, its just got to make the owner happy

utter musical coherence etc etc might be a means to that for some people - but by the same token, so might the Lumleys.

 

mosfet

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Unmovable truth number one: All loudspeaker designs bar none are a compromise in some way. At least until someone invents a completely new way of vibrating air. Choose your compromises; or rather choose those elements of reproduction that are most important to you.

If midrange is your thing, a small pair of two-way monitors or single driver. If it’s dynamics and slam a loudspeaker that’s going to shift some air with big drivers (not poxy fart tubes).

Many loudspeakers I’ve heard have tried to be all things to all men and got it very wrong as a result.

 
G

Guest

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nixon_fiend wrote:

turnitup! wrote:
At least one bass/midrange driver and a tweeter, in a box.
what about single driver speakers eh? lowthers? you want coherence? you got it!
good, but if you want top and bottom you don't got it too

 

SSM

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Speaker choice represents the most subjectively personal aspect for anyone looking to put together a system. One man's meat is another's mission.:pSo it is hard to agree on a common set of attributes that define a "good" speaker.

My own criteria:

  1. treble must be detailed yet well-controlled (never shrieky) at ALL times
  2. better to have a taut bass response with a higher roll-off, than a deeper one which is flabby and wobbles
  3. both treble and bass must be subservient to the midrange, which is afterall the area where most of the music is
  4. the finish and veneers must be attractive and tough enough to withstand time and intense air-conditioning humidity
    rolleyes.gif.fd85f9fd5d171988ef004a59c04642db.gif
SS

 

Chumpy

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I really believe that for an individual user as long as the electronics etc work fine/well with it/them subjective bias towards name-finish-type-size-sensitivity-age-feel-smell etcis what counts most. I am sure that I am not the only one who has heard very very expensive transducers sound vile, and little cheap loudspeaker enclosures stuck on e.g. pub/dentist ceiling seem as enjoyable as necessary.

 

Boxer

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Duvet wrote:

Well i don't mind a speaker being a master rather being a jack of all trades but they should also tell you the kit they tested it with. I think the Lumley's are more for classical
I've never been too convinced by the idea of a "classical", "jazz" or "rock" speaker: if they time well, are harmonically & tonally accurate, & are well integrated & coherent, you can play any music. Hence why I feel my baby ProAcs (`specially with Expos) do a sterling job, not bettered without spending lottery win money, to my ears.

Any speaker that only seems to work on one style of music is, surely, fundamentally flawed?

Boxer

 

Kiang

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Barring single driver speakers I think the ability to marry up a range of different drivers that complement each other is what really makes it.

That seems obvious I know but Let me explain.

Consider a simple 2-way design like the emotion - looks easy enough on paper if one is able to integrate the two drivers' SPL curves and chose an appropriate crossover point but when one allocates so much work to a tweeter which dips well into the midrange the effects of baffle diffraction are significant and in effect will require a complicated filter (butterworth) to counter this and there is a loss in sensitivity to a degree as well as a result. One can take away some of the "complication" in the filter by increasing the baffle size and width , hence the wide box.

This allows us to retain some of the sensitivity as well.

This is just to give you an insight into one way of approaching a problem - the designer has a few other options but with considerations of design, cost etc

Then there is design in terms of closed Vs ported etc, this not only has effects in the tightness of bass but stability of extension as the frequency extends into the all important listening range( 500 hz and above for the midbass driver).

Tightness of bass is not objectively apparent on the spec sheets so qualities like these cannot be accounted for on the CAD drawing .

Then all this has to integrate in the average room , recreate the characteristics with most amplifiers, be acceptable to most ears and sound good with most types of music , be affordable for what it can do, be of a size that is acceptable, not too heavy, and .................. this goes on.

After all this and after doing everything by the book not infrequenty one still find that there is a little something missing , the special experience. This sometimes happens by accident and a special being is born. I have experienced this in many walks of life and am sure others have as well.

I do believe that a clever patient designer can improve on the Lumleys for example, for not much of an outlay .

All IMO Ofcourse - I am not a loudspeaker designer by trade but as a hobbyist I understand the skill and difficulty involved in producing a quality speaker, so when you look at a loudspeaker it is not simply a box with a couple of drivers and some electronic components soldered on based on the findings of a software program. The truly great ones are built with far greater care and attention to detail.

 

Davewhityetagain

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, ,
Duvet wrote:

What exactly makes a good speaker. I've been listening to the Lumleys for a good day now and the midrange is actually very good but its at the expense of bass and a treble that on occasions sounds like a firework screeching and blazing a trail. If i can hear it why can't the designer:Not Sure:. Its as if speakers have greatness snatched from them by one wrong move. No matter whether its a horn or two way.three way or 10 cones they all have to act seamlessly together. I'm sure we've all had a speaker that does so well in one department only to be let down by something else in the chain.Why is good speaker design so hard to implement. Is itjust a matter of cost or are there many other factors involved. Right get your gloves on and come out swinging:fight:
Good Speakers

needs ....................................................

Bass mid range treble in the right amounts good image and sound stage with good looks

cool.gif.9d6c72c555b38e519336a6d9b55ca875.gif


 

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