Windows 7 upsampling to 192Khz

[MikeG]

Playing with settings on a new toy (T+A DAC 8) and I found playback through WMP sounding better than on Foobar, which I normally use. Bit of investigation and it seems windows is up sampling all files to 192Khz (DAC is showing 192 input) whereas Foobar is running WASAPI as normal and puts all files through to the DAC at their original bit rate.

Windows is doing this because it's set to do so in the sample rate & bit depth for shared devices - I selected this option as part of the instructions for installation of the DAC8 software, which I didn't really understand / pay attention to at the time of setting it up.

Has any one else tried this, does anyone understand how windows does this / what's actually going on and of course am I a simpleton for thinking it sounds better ??

 

[MikeG]

done some more listening and have got it now so that I can compare both output options from Foobar. From this I'm sure using the Direct Sound output is better than using WASAPI, which seems to go against what I would expect (although I really don't understand the difference between the 2 at any technical level)

This applies with sample rate forced to 44.1 in windows (applies to DS only) and I think (a finer difference, but maybe there) that there is a further step up in sound when windows is forced to 192.

Could just be that the WASAPI driver is not getting on with the new DAC, it is a bit unstable, but the sound I'm getting from DS @192 really is good with very fine instrument textures and sense of space - makes me think that it's right

going back to my listening ...

 

[Chumpy]

Interesting how we find what is right for our enjoying listening etc.

 

[pluto]

• What happens if you get Foobar to upsample to 192kHz and play this out via WASAPI to your DAC?
  
• What happens if you get Foobar to upsample to 192kHz and play this out via Direct Sound?
  
• What happens if you get Foobar to not upsample and play out via Direct Sound?
  

These tests will, almost certainly, provide an answer.

While I have never formally tested Windows' internal sample rate converter, popular opinion says it isn't too good.

Two things are possibly happening –

• WMP and/or Windows is adding some 'happy factor' to the sound. Are all the Windows 'enhancements' (in control panel / sound) disabled. My money is on this, or something similar.
  
• Your DAC performs better (or, at least, more to your preference) at 192kHz
  

There is always a simple and logical reason for this kind of conundrum.

 

[MikeG]

mmm, did work through the options pretty much as you had them and got to the cause of the conundrum - me !

Turns out the WASPI driver in event mode just wasn't happy, tried in in push mode instead and sounded good, the difference to DS basically gone. Comparing side by side DS @ 192 maybe still has more space & detail , but at the expense of some grain / edginess

A bit of reading up on software upsampling to 192 did reveal that it's not a completely daft concept though, so maybe something for another day...

 

[AmDismal]

This kind of thing has to be DAC-dependent. Most modern DACs will oversample, which should push out the digital artefacts from audibility; feeding an upsampled 24/192 stream does a similar thing, although you are using quite different algorithms, so will get different results. I certainly got excellent results from my dCS kit when I had both Elgar and the Purcell upsampler, so there is definitely something in it, at least with an older DAC.

The sonic gains you indicate (more space, less grain) are the commonest-reported for upsampling. Maybe expectation bias has crept in too? It's very hard to avoid it, IMO - I know that I fall victim to it as well!

 

[MikeG]

Hi Adam, agreed on expectations of course , but just to be clear the windows DS upsampling seemed to be adding more space and more grain - maybe a non DS based audio driver could do a better job of it ?

 

[pluto]

Now you've cracked it, give Foobar's own resampler (which isn't bad as such things go), a critical appraisal with WASAPI. That way you will be sure that Windows isn't adding any of its own flavouring.

Incidentally, for stability, make sure you are using the latest version of the WASAPI output module (currently 3.2.3).