Windsor - Heco Direkt and the hORNS

bonzo

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To summarize, especially those in small rooms struggling to know what speakers to buy should just get the Heco Direkt, 2700 quid, and run it  with SETs. Details follow. 

Went to the Windsor HiFi show yesterday. None of the big systems were sounding good, due to room and show conditions on the first day. There was Dan agostino and Wilson Alexx, and AR and Wilson Yvette in the same room. Magico S5 mkii with constellation centaur metronome top line transport and dac. All with top of the line Transparent.

The Wilson room was playing many master copies of Peter McGrath's recordings. Ken Kessler gave a speech in that room where he was very honest that he does not use concerts to judge hifi,  and does not go to classical (something I had guessed by reading his reviews). He said that according to him systems should be used to create your own definition of sound, and not try to have a live reference, else it will be self-defeating. He said that he and Peter Mcgrath were good friends, and had contrary views on this subject, Peter being a classical guy. He added that for someone who likes classical, reading his reviews was like a wine connoisseur reading a beer drinker's review. He mentioned  that he sees the markets for dealers declining nad for custom install increasing, and the low end of hifi becoming cheaper but the high end becoming pricier. They mentioned someone in Colorado who had blown up a hole in the mountain to create a music room. 

Anyway, back to the sonics. Given how bright the Yvette sounded in that room, I was surprised how relatively relaxed the Momentums made the Alexx sound. This was similar to when I had heard the Momentums with Alexandria X2S2, with a similar Vivaldi stack and Transparent set up. The momentums are extremely fine, musical amps. Will try to compare it to some other amp, and the stereo to the monos. The Alexandria was a private set up, and had much more timbre, midbass, weight and grandeur.

Then YG sonja with the Boulder 2160, a compete Boulder system with SME 30/12 and ortofon a90  also had set up challenges. I have heard YG Hailey with Luxman m900 and Nagra Jazz sound fantastic, and have also heard it sound great with the above Boulder, Burmester 911 Mk3, and Plinius. YGs are like Quads with more bass and dynamics. They sound edgy and metallic when set up wrong, but very organic and decay nicely when set up correctly. 

The Jadis JA 80 + Martin Logan Expression had the DCS running straight to the amps, which I think was a mistake and should have had the Jadis preamp in. It was wired out of phase, which I pointed out to them.

The Clearaudio statement room with Goldfinger statement and Gamut amps and speakers was too noisy with public taking loudly, and they were again wired out of phase, which I pointed out to them because violins started playing from the right. They corrected it and violins were back to the left.

All systems were sounding hard. The best rooms were the simplest. The Maggie 1.7 with audio analog 70w amp and Kronos Sparta 0.5 and transfiguration proteus, PS audio phono was extremely impressive. When I started playing my LPs of Argenta Espana,  Rubinstein Emperor, Scheherazade Reiner, and Bruch Scottish Fantasia, with CDs of Bach cantata choral and other arias, it sounded great. Small room, panels close to the wall, with absorbers behind.

The Maggie 20.7 was in a big room with Ayre and Brinkmann Spyder, Lyra Etna.

The best sounding room was a small room run by Pure Sound. The Heco Direkt speakers, 95 db, with Pure Sound's 845 SETs of 25 watts (he mentioned he also runs them with 10w EL84 amps) and STS Motus direct drive with the Hana SL cartridge (500 quid).

I went in to check the Motus, totally dismissed the speakers because of their size. I played Bruch, it sounded nice. I therefore thought I could stress the speakers easily with orchestral, so put on Scheherazade. Unflinched. Then I put on Argenta Espana, and it sounded brilliant. I was flabbergasted. Such small things should not be capable of such performance. You might not get the best piano from it, but hey, it's 2700 quid! And will fit into your bathroom if you wanted it too. And you can have a SET multichannel set up to boot.

The audio shows are a great representative of audiophile set ups. Most audiophiles force in speakers into rooms that don't suit them. I clearly had an epiphany today of seeing that unless you can get your ultimate system into a proper giant room, imperative to for many to realize that a nice low cost Turntable, with Audio Technica or Hana SL 500 quid cartridge, integrated SET amp 1 to 2k used, EAR phono used 1k, and Heco Direkt, will sound lovely. You could always upgrade to whatever levels you wanted, but this will beat most giant speakers shoved incorrectly into the wrong rooms. It is also a great and much better choice for people who cannot get real big horns and settle for toyish compromises just because they have high sensitivity.

These German speakers will come below your waistline, and are broad baffled, paper cone, vented bass at the bottom. Here is the http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/heco/1.html

The other good sounding room was Audionote, which had, like in Munich, a live Cellist playing alongwith the music. The AN TT2 with the AN IO1 and their phono was giving a lot of purity to the higher frequencies and mids tones that I haven't heard before. I have never been impressed by an AN system before,  but that's mainly because I am not a fan of those speakers.

Then there was the hORNS Universum MkIIII room, which are among my favorite speakers. During the day they were sounding hard, and I noticed they were placed too wide to soundstage. After show hours, the crew took them off the wheels, spiked them, brought them closer to each other, and changed the amps from 80 watt 211s which had made the horns sound aggressive to 12w EL84 monos. Then it started sounding much better.

The choral on this was the best. The transport was a Lampi golden gate, which in the morning had KR 45 valves (not a fan), but in the evening had the special EML mesh globe anniversary 45s.

One thing these horns do better than systems is the separation and distinction of each instrument in orchestra. Flutes, clarinets, brass, strings, sound extremely well separated with distinct tones. I have heard it sound great in Munich this year (not the previous year), and in a proper in home set up. 

The Sikora TT with the Audio Technica carts sounded great. I love those carts, indeed giant killers. 

 
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pure sound

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Thanks for the comments and also for the details of the other systems, most of which I unfortunately didn't get to see or hear this time.

 
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jy3

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We went to the show yesterday and heard the Wilson Alexx, great hifi but were was the emotion. Previous experience of listening to Wilson speakers I would lay the blame on the D'Agostino amps, I would have preferred Audio Research amplification, a match made in heaven with Wilson's. The best sound at the show for us was the Magico speakers in the other Absolute Sounds room. At more realistic price levels I really enjoyed the Inspire room using the Monarch tt with Opera Callas speakers. Worse sound room was Naim, they just don't mix with Focal speakers, tizzy top end, and lumpy bass. Thoroughly enjoyed the day and was able to see and hear things I would not normally have the chance to.

 

bonzo

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We went to the show yesterday and heard the Wilson Alexx, great hifi but were was the emotion. Previous experience of listening to Wilson speakers I would lay the blame on the D'Agostino amps, I would have preferred Audio Research amplification, a match made in heaven with Wilson's. The best sound at the show for us was the Magico speakers in the other Absolute Sounds room. At more realistic price levels I really enjoyed the Inspire room using the Monarch tt with Opera Callas speakers. Worse sound room was Naim, they just don't mix with Focal speakers, tizzy top end, and lumpy bass. Thoroughly enjoyed the day and was able to see and hear things I would not normally have the chance to.
I have heard the Alexandria X2S2 with Dan Agostinos in one system and top of the line Lamm SET amps in another, and the XLF with Spectral DMA 400s and VTL s400. I think the Danny Boys are the best to drive a Wilson, and among my favorite SS amps along with Vitus SM102 and up, and Boulder 2000 series. 

As for valves, I owned an AR Ref 110, and have heard the Wilsons at shows with AR many times, and the AR on private systems. Great harmonics and involvement but congest on orchestral. You are not going to find emotion at an hifi show in such a complex system, you will have to listen to one in a careful private or dealer set up to judge. 

I have heard Magico S3 with Levinson, Q5 with Karan M2000, S5 MkII (the ones at the show) with Conrad Johnson top end gear and VPI Avenger 40k TT set up with SAT tonearm and Lyra Atlas, and the S1 Mk2s and S7s with Vitus SM102 and pre, as well as with Kondo Kagura and Kondo M1000 mk2. Plus those heard many times at shows with Constellations in windsor and those set up with Munich. I am clearly not a fan of the speakers, though I loved the Vitus amp on them, and have heard it many times. The liquidity and flow and tone of the class A is excellent. I haven't been impressed by their A/B amps. 

IMO, a good restored apogee, a big horn like Animas, Trios with bass horns, Western Electrics, or in a smaller to medium room, these Heco Direkts, will be the one to go for. I look at SS amps purely to come up with a shortlist for Apogees. Puresound had an extremely smartly put up system in there that was delivering multiple times its value. The Maggie 1.7 room was sounding pretty good too for its price and compromised room. 

ps: Unlike some on the wam, I did not know Guy personally before and we met only yesterday, so there is no friendship element here. That speaker is a giant killer, and with more budget get a MCH Heco system (they are so tiny it's easy), so you can spin vinyl on 2-ch and listen to MCH classical SACDs as well. Best of both. 

 

jy3

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You have obviously more experience than me listening to Wilson speakers, I've only heard them at shows, although quite a few times. I'll stand by what I've heard including yesterday,don't forget it's only a hobby and it would be pretty boring if we all liked exactly the same. :) Forgot to mention the Maggies, heard them early doors sounding rather thin and again later in the afternoon sounding very good.

 

bonzo

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You have obviously more experience than me listening to Wilson speakers, I've only heard them at shows, although quite a few times. I'll stand by what I've heard including yesterday,don't forget it's only a hobby and it would be pretty boring if we all liked exactly the same. :) Forgot to mention the Maggies, heard them early doors sounding rather thin and again later in the afternoon sounding very good.
Were you using your own music for demo on the Maggies?

I am not denying you what you heard, my impressions of Dan and AR were formed outside show conditions. I use shows only to look at positives which are then leads to follow ups. I have heard many negative sounding components at shows sound good outside of it. 

 
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PuritéAudio

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Any photographs? Did you see Bruno Ked,he was in the room with the Goya speakers?

Keith

 

bonzo

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Any photographs? Did you see Bruno Ked,he was in the room with the Goya speakers?

Keith
I did but he was busy talking to someone and the room was a bit hidden upstairs, so did not get much time. Also I know the Giyas well, not the Molas though will be interesting to compare them with a big class A, AB or valve once. 

 

George 47

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For me this has become the High End Show of the UK with so many top systems to listen to. The conditions are not ideal but I am not sure they are bad, like Whittlebury. I enjoyed the Heco system last year and this year. It has a great set of dynamics and sounds natural bit with classical and more modern music. There are a new set of Heco Direckts but with 15" bass units which are said to really deliver.They will be available in the future although the price is somewhat more. The hORNS system was not very good, it was too wide and the music stuck to the speakers. The amps looked home made. The sound from the MFA room next store was much better even though they were only using LS5/9 speakers. Playing a 1957 sounded really direct, clear and emotion. Lovely.

The Wilson Alexx with DanD'Ago amps and DCS sounded as they looked. Big, bold, cinematic and very dramatic. The system sounded much better than when I heard in KJ West one. They really drove the room and they played the Organ track really well and the deep bass was very unforced. The room did add a lot of reflection but it was easy to filter it out. The AR amps and Yvette was really interesting. They played well and the sound was integrated and it was able to be played loud but this room was probably a bit too large for them. They were bright and a little tight but I wonder whether they were a bit new and not run in. They Constellation/Magico sounded a whole lot better than last year. The Anthony and the Johnstons track was superbly emotional (not heard it before) and there were a few teary eyes amongst these big butch audiophiles including businessman Riccardo.

I liked the Audionote room but they just put on the Cello track and then left the room and we heard the whole album. It was good but the AN room is normally brilliant as it always has a wide variety of music.

The Gamut room was good and Mike Valentine was a real character.

I found the sound quality was variable and some rooms were not very good. 

 

George 47

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The sound in the Giya and Mola/Mola room was very good. It was incredibly 3D, huge and cinematic especially when they changed the music from safe and opened up the volume. . The amplifiers looked good but the case/colour was OK. Bruno was not in the room when I was there, a pity as it would have been good to talk to him.

 

bonzo

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I agree hORNS were too far apart, the best way to hear them is in Malvern or the way they sounded in Munich this summer. They also need to be biamped and here they were not. They actually soundstage very well, more like Quads. I still liked their tone and separation on orchestral at the show. 

 

jy3

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Were you using your own music for demo on the Maggies?

I am not denying you what you heard, my impressions of Dan and AR were formed outside show conditions. I use shows only to look at positives which are then leads to follow ups. I have heard many negative sounding components at shows sound good outside of it. 
I was not using my own music, but later on when hearing them sounding very good the music was more to my taste. I thought that because I heard the system early on in the day it had not had chance to warm up. Please don't misunderstand me regarding the Dan amps, I'm sure they are very good (at that price they should be :) ) but for my brother and myself they would not be chosen to partner Wilson speakers.

 

bonzo

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I was not using my own music, but later on when hearing them sounding very good the music was more to my taste. I thought that because I heard the system early on in the day it had not had chance to warm up. Please don't misunderstand me regarding the Dan amps, I'm sure they are very good (at that price they should be :) ) but for my brother and myself they would not be chosen to partner Wilson speakers.
All I ask is for you and your brother to have an open mind till you compare it with your own music outside show conditions :) , price aside. I don't think price has anything to do with it. I have heard too much expensive stuff that's not. As you can see from my choices of speakers posted above. And yes, I do take my LPs and discs along and don't rely on what is being played, so I evaluated the Maggies on complex music that I was familiar with

 

jy3

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Did anyone get to hear the big JBL's partnered with Mark Levinson amps, I was lucky enough to hear them playing Roger Waters :^ and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, my brother not quite so impressed. Don't know what they'd be like with classical or acoustic music though.

 

jy3

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All I ask is for you and your brother to have an open mind till you compare it with your own music outside show conditions :) , price aside. I don't think price has anything to do with it. I have heard too much expensive stuff that's not. As you can see from my choices of speakers posted above. And yes, I do take my LPs and discs along and don't rely on what is being played, so I evaluated the Maggies on complex music that I was familiar with
We both go with an open mid, neither of us owning Wilson speakers but always enjoying Absolute Sounds dems. (getting tickets is the first thing we do on arriving at the show). We haven't taken our own music for a few years now not knowing whether to take vinyl,cd or usb stick so rely on whats there. My opinions of the dems are exactly that,  whether or not I find I can sit and enjoy the music being played ignoring rooms and equipment prices.

All I ask is for you and your brother to have an open mind till you compare it with your own music outside show conditions :) , price aside. I don't think price has anything to do with it. I have heard too much expensive stuff that's not. As you can see from my choices of speakers posted above. And yes, I do take my LPs and discs along and don't rely on what is being played, so I evaluated the Maggies on complex music that I was familiar with
We both go with an open mid, neither of us owning Wilson speakers but always enjoying Absolute Sounds dems. (getting tickets is the first thing we do on arriving at the show). We haven't taken our own music for a few years now not knowing whether to take vinyl,cd or usb stick so rely on whats there. My opinions of the dems are exactly that,  whether or not I find I can sit and enjoy the music being played ignoring rooms and equipment prices.

 

bonzo

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Did anyone get to hear the big JBL's partnered with Mark Levinson amps, I was lucky enough to hear them playing Roger Waters :^ and thoroughly enjoyed the experience, my brother not quite so impressed. Don't know what they'd be like with classical or acoustic music though.
I have heard those before 2 years ago at Windsor, and at Munich, and have heard the big K2 66000 with various amps twice in different rooms, as well as the JBL 4250 (see here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19789-Horn-Porn-weekend&p=373083&viewfull=1#post373083)

I would personally take the WE, Trios with bass horns, Tune Audio Animas and hORNS Universum, The Universum and the JBLs at the show will suit somewhat smaller rooms than the other 3 require. And all are expensive, though JBLs are found more used. A really good JBL I heard was a DIY JBL in Berlin in link below

 

JamPal

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Thanks for the comments and also for the details of the other systems, most of which I unfortunately didn't get to see or hear this time.
Will the Heco's be making an appearance at Scalford? Yet to hear a pair, and looking forward to it.

 
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