Powerleads and Mains etc

The Strat

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A few thoughts and experiences on mains leads. When I started out on the hi-fi road in the 80s most stuff came hard wired so changing a lead was rarely an option. I read a few times about mains filters and gold plated plugs but was never inclined to try and to be honest whilst not an "objectivist" swapping leads around had never really struck me as something to be bothered with. I heard a few demos of different speaker cable enough to convince me that there was probably some benefit in changing a few things but being pretty much at the budget end I stuck with QED 79. However, when we moved to this house I started to upgrade and noticed one day that the mains lead Arcam provided with their amp and CDP was heavier than that provided with their tuner so curiosity said do a swap the result being that I thought there was a slight narrowing of the sound when the Tuner lead was used on the Amp. OK - nothing to get excited about so so be it. But curiosity was gathering so I borrowed from the good chaps in Audio-T Oxford a Black Rhodium Power Bar and a couple of whatever leads and yes there was clearly although not massively a smoothing of the sound with more detail but not enough to justify the outlay - I judged. Then (after a lot of evaluation) I migrated to Naim and an e-mail exchange with the Great White Fluffy Bear of this Parish ended with me inheriting a Grahams Hydra 6 way junction lead designed specifically for Naim equipment. Oh yes - very much cleaner, more resolution and musical - to coin a phrase. Then Naim announced that as part of their on-going 500 series project the launch of their own Powerline to be provided as standard with their CDP555/NAC552/NAP500. Apparently the decoupling at each end reduces mechanical noise at each end and the wire itself is copper shielded etc etc I presume. To cut to the chase I then went and won one of these beasts at a Naim Summer Roadshow. Still in the slightly less than convinced camp I took it home placed it on the CDP and wow this was like a component upgrade - bigger soundstage and more detail very consdiderable improvement all round. Equally trying it on the various other bits of the system had equal effect and I lie not it really has an impact on a £150 Arcam tuner! Curiously though whilst having an impact on the Roksan TT I've never been certain that it's entirely beneficial - the bass gets flabby. But on Naim equipment this wire in my opinion etc is really worth having such that I've now through the 2nd hand market procured them for all my Naim components. But the story doesn't end there. Despite the positive impact said leads have I was getting bumps and pops on my system whenever the freezer kicked in, the boiler fired up, toaster exploded so called up the local sparky and we agreed a dedicated radial spur for the hi-fi with a dedicated (unswitched) socket for each box. Instant success not a pop since and again a further clean up in the sound. One final thought on the TT. In conversation with Peter Swain at Cymbiosis we started to discuss the ultra expensdive Chord Sarum Aray wires and he kindly lent me the Powerlead to try. When this thing was in place I actually started to think that perhaps all this was in my imagination because I was at a loss to describe let alone explain just how drastic the transformation was such that I removed it put the standard Roksan wire back on invited Frau Strat in and she confirmed what I thought - yes this wire is very special. In a nutshell there was a texture, transparency and reality to Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat like I have never experienced. Have I purchased? No - there a lots of things to do with £1,000!!!!!!!!!

 

rabski

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Actually, I'm not surprised that mains cables could have an effect on 'cheaper' equipment. The power supplies are inherently likely to be built to a price, so may be more susceptible to mains-borne interference and the like.

Here, I use fully-shielded mains leads for virtually everything. I also use decent-quality connectors, as factors such as micro-arcing are known and provable. I also use a high-current Isotek transformer-coupled power unit for almost everything.

Beyond that, the jury is not out, it is decided, in my mind and in proven science. Your money, your choice.

 
D

Daniel Quinn[2]

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If shielding is taken to mean a metal shield over the conducting wires before the dialectic ,then no they are not .

 

GJO

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When I remodeled our lounge some 12 years ago I decided to fit another consumer unit just for the HiFi,wired with SY cable because my neighbour had a 50mtr role going spare supplying 6 single M&K unswitched sockets with a lightning rod buried in the garden for earth duties.The cable screen was earthed at the consumer board only.I really couldn't say if it made any difference as AB ing wasn't on the cards,but for a total outlay of about £100 plus a day to install and a bottle of wine for my neighbour who also tested the installation,it seemed a no brainer at the time.

Being a user,at the time,of Nordost IC's and speaker cables I went down the route of their mains cables trying the Shivas over a 6 month period or so,I didn't miss them when swapped out of the system,they were E-bay purchases so they cost me nothing when I sold them on.

Have also tried various conditioners from Isotek,didn't get on with the Sigmas,it made my system sound bland with a loss of dynamics,I did like the Titan but the cost was to much for me at the time and it was huge.

A couple of years back I snapped up 5 x 1mtr leads and 1 x 2mt with a 6 way extension block wired with 1.5mm Supra Lo rad cable off the Wam at a price I couldn't resist,these only have standard type plugs fitted but the radio 3 breakthrough I had some afternoons has gone,so these do have some positives.

Now this is a contentious subject if previous threads are anything to go by,but by far the biggest improvement I have heard is with a balanced mains transformer in my system,I now wouldn't be without mine.

 

rabski

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When I remodeled our lounge some 12 years ago I decided to fit another consumer unit just for the HiFi,wired with SY cable because my neighbour had a 50mtr role going spare supplying 6 single M&K unswitched sockets with a lightning rod buried in the garden for earth duties.The cable screen was earthed at the consumer board only.I really couldn't say if it made any difference as AB ing wasn't on the cards,but for a total outlay of about £100 plus a day to install and a bottle of wine for my neighbour who also tested the installation,it seemed a no brainer at the time.Being a user,at the time,of Nordost IC's and speaker cables I went down the route of their mains cables trying the Shivas over a 6 month period or so,I didn't miss them when swapped out of the system,they were E-bay purchases so they cost me nothing when I sold them on.

Have also tried various conditioners from Isotek,didn't get on with the Sigmas,it made my system sound bland with a loss of dynamics,I did like the Titan but the cost was to much for me at the time and it was huge.

A couple of years back I snapped up 5 x 1mtr leads and 1 x 2mt with a 6 way extension block wired with 1.5mm Supra Lo rad cable off the Wam at a price I couldn't resist,these only have standard type plugs fitted but the radio 3 breakthrough I had some afternoons has gone,so these do have some positives.

Now this is a contentious subject if previous threads are anything to go by,but by far the biggest improvement I have heard is with a balanced mains transformer in my system,I now wouldn't be without mine.
With hi-vis jacket and safety hat on... you need to be very, very careful using balanced transformers.

Domestic equipment is designed and CE approved based on an unbalanced supply and there are a number of possibilities I can immediately think of where a balanced supply could potentially be lethal.

I would not advise this under any circumstances. Consumer electronics are not designed to run on balanced mains and AFAIK they are not approved for domestic use.

"It sounded better" is not a valid argument for an insurance claim.

 
B

BD Audio

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Please be careful disconnecting your supplied earth in your electrical installation too in favour of an earth spike. Despite the fact that the earthing quality will much worse, the potential voltage difference may be lethal across the systems and god help you if you disregarded the need for a residual current device.

Sorry if that sounds like a moaning post bit I really do worry about the safety of some audiophiles and their families.

 

rabski

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Please be careful disconnecting your supplied earth in your electrical installation too in favour of an earth spike. Despite the fact that the earthing quality will much worse, the potential voltage difference may be lethal across the systems and god help you if you disregarded the need for a residual current device.Sorry if that sounds like a moaning post bit I really do worry about the safety of some audiophiles and their families.
This, and massively so.

Disconnecting any mains grounding is the ultimate stupidity. Totally insane.

Earth spikes are a heap of crap anyway. Figure out how electrical supplies actually work. That will tell you firstly why using grounding spikes rather than mains earthing is utterly stupid, and also why running a balanced mains supply is potentially highly dangerous.

All you are going to do is introduce potential ground loops, which will mean hum. Plus, it's stupidly dangerous.

Earthing is there for a reason.

 
B

BD Audio

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Well aware of that, I have a few foo bits in practise myself at home.

I HAVE to point out potential safety risks though, it's in my training as an ex electrician!

 

old_school

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;1892935']If shielding is taken to mean a metal shield over the conducting wires before the dialectic ' date='then no they are not .[/quote']That word has no place in a subjective discussion :D
 

guypettigrew

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This is the subjectivist's forum.

There are other places on here for the standard 'Wam stuff about nothing making a difference.

GJOs post about a balanced mains transformer is spot on. Huge improvement.

And The Strat's comments about different mains leads making a difference are so right.

We don't have to understand about how mains leads make a difference, we just have to hear it.

No matter how good the power circuitry in a bit of Hi Fi kit is, feeding it through a better mains lead can always improve things.

For years I've offered to bring mains leads round to people's places to try them out. With one exception 'wammers have chickened out at the last minute. Perhaps now we have a subjectivist forum some people might be tempted to take up the offer!

Guy

 

mmar

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I'm curious if a one mtr piece of boutique mains cable can infact have such a positive impact on sound quality why is it manafactures don't supply them with there kit as std

Surely top end manafactures spending so much time and research developing a product for essentially one purpose ( to sound as good as possible) Woulnt turn a blind eye to such an easy improvement given the cost at trade level

 

rabski

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I'm curious if a one mtr piece of boutique mains cable can infact have such a positive impact on sound quality why is it manafactures don't supply them with there kit as std Surely top end manafactures spending so much time and research developing a product for essentially one purpose ( to sound as good as possible) Woulnt turn a blind eye to such an easy improvement given the cost at trade level
You're missing the point mate.

We don't have to understand it, we just have to hear it.

Unfortunately, manufacturers are constrained by silly little things like the law and relevant safety legislation, so they don't bother.

Of course, were they not limited by such rubbish, they'd fir all sorts of stuff that 'obviously' makes a massive difference....

 

guypettigrew

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You're missing the point mate.We don't have to understand it, we just have to hear it.

Unfortunately, manufacturers are constrained by silly little things like the law and relevant safety legislation, so they don't bother.

Of course, were they not limited by such rubbish, they'd fir all sorts of stuff that 'obviously' makes a massive difference....
Calm down!

It's not about the 'law'. It's about sound.

If you want to hear how mains cables can improve sound then invite me round.

Guy

 

JamPal

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This is the subjectivist's forum.There are other places on here for the standard 'Wam stuff about nothing making a difference.

GJOs post about a balanced mains transformer is spot on. Huge improvement.

And The Strat's comments about different mains leads making a difference are so right.

We don't have to understand about how mains leads make a difference' date=' we just have to hear it.

No matter how good the power circuitry in a bit of Hi Fi kit is, feeding it through a better mains lead can always improve things.

For years I've offered to bring mains leads round to people's places to try them out. With one exception 'wammers have chickened out at the last minute. Perhaps now we have a subjectivist forum some people might be tempted to take up the offer!

Guy[/quote']

This is a subjective forum. Not a forum for dangerous practice. Jack is right to point out safety aspects.

I would love to know who "chickened out" of wasting an afternoon with you. Are you sure it was fear that put them off? Perhaps they were scared of being bored.

Subjectivity doesn't include making stuff up for mischief. Yeesh.
 

The Strat

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I'm curious if a one mtr piece of boutique mains cable can infact have such a positive impact on sound quality why is it manafactures don't supply them with there kit as std Surely top end manafactures spending so much time and research developing a product for essentially one purpose ( to sound as good as possible) Woulnt turn a blind eye to such an easy improvement given the cost at trade level
Well I've spoken to the Naim guys about the PL. Just as you say it came from the development of the 500 series and is standard with those products.

 

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