Yes! I have tone controls! At last!

[technobear]

So have I ditched my beloved ATC SIA2-150?

Er, no, actually

I have downloaded and installed this:

http://www.inguzaudio.com/RoomCorrection/

Yep, my humble Transporter now does full room correction

Or at least it would if I had a microphone and the DRC software which I don't at present

What I do get though is a choice of:

• 2-band. Controls are for “bass†and “trebleâ€. This is modeled on the classic Baxandall tone control.
  
  [*]3-band. Controls are for “bassâ€, “mid†(960 Hz) and “trebleâ€.
  
  [*]5-band. Controls are at 60Hz, 240Hz, 960Hz, 3840Hz and 15360Hz.
  
  [*]9-band. Controls are at 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz, 480Hz, 960Hz, 1.92kHz, 3.84kHz, 7.68kHz and 15.36kHz.

I've selected the 9-band equaliser as I only want to use this in the extreme top and bottom end.

Having made some settings you can save them as presets with a name so I can have 'normal', 'club', 'rock' or whatever I choose and as many as I like.

So far I've used it to knock of 3dB at 60 Hz for those CDs that have killer bass.

I've also tried adding 4dB at 60Hz to Deep Purple which comes up a bit lean here.

I have to say on the tracks I've tried so far it doesn't appear to be doing any damage to the music. It just does what it's supposed to do.

Fab!

Now to find out about the DSP software...

 

[Sheva]

So is room correction just a glorified graphic equaliser? And don't wish to appear ignorant, but how does it fit into the system, is itvia a tape loop?

 

[technobear]

Sheva wrote:

So is room correction just a glorified graphic equaliser?

It's almost the other way round. There is no real difference between a digital filter to produce a 'graphic equalisation' response and one to produce a 'room correction' response. The only real difference is that the software which creates a room correction filter is a little more complicated than the software which produces a graphic equaliser filter. The format of the filter and the DSP engine to apply it appear to be the same in each case.

There are numerous explanations on the web of how digital filtering works. Most of them involve hideous maths but here is one that is not too bad:

http://www.regonaudio.com/Digital%20Filters%20Part%20I.html

http://www.regonaudio.com/Digital%20Filters%20Part%20II.html

Lots more interesting stuff on that site.

And don't wish to appear ignorant, but how does it fit into the system, is itvia a tape loop?

The words "I have downloaded and installed this:" are a clue

It consists of two software plug-ins for SlimServer.

The first plug-in enables the extra menu controls on the Transporter/Squeezebox so that the EQ settings can be controlled.

The second plug-in is the DSP engine which does all the hard work with the digital music signal before it is sent to the Transporter/Squeezebox.

At present the equaliser can only be controlled on the Transporter/SB using the remote control. In time I'm sure controls will be added to the SlimServer web interface so that the equaliser can be controlled from any computer on the network.

 

[nixon_fiend]

those slim guys are going from strength to strength!

Good old logitech!

 

[wolfgang]

Do you need more toys to carry out some room measurements first before you know what correction to apply?

 

[technobear]

wolfgang wrote:

Do you need more toys to carry out some room measurements first before you know what correction to apply?

Yes.

You need some DSP software and a microphone of characteristics that are known to the software. You record some frequency sweeps and then the software analyses them and creates the filters (one left, one right). And that's it.

There is presently no manual filter setup. However, if it is possible to create filters on the fly for the settings of a graphic equaliser then it ought to be possible to do the same for a parametric equaliser and thereby allow manual room correction. We shall have to wait and see. This stuff is still beta.

 

[JH1]

Top Banana Techno bear

I didn't know these downloads were available....I know where I'm off to now!!

 

[Guest]

my amp does this anyway. and with the room eq off it sounds

.

 

[wolfgang]

technobear wrote:

wolfgang wrote: You need some DSP software and a microphone of characteristics that are known to the software. You record some frequency sweeps and then the software analyses them and creates the filters (one left, one right). And that's it.

Reading from the link you gave previously it suggest you need to use a computer with DSP software to do this. It that right?

Rudolph,

I am thinking about that. If yours are just as good and have all the measurement and correcction softwares contained in one box it is a simpler solution. Then when the time comes to let my Tag go. And toys with these room correction thingy will be top priority.

 

[uzzy]

Years ago in the old Guidlford hi fi we did an experiment (this is late 1970s) with a graphic equaliser.

First we played pink noise and measured the response on a frequency optomitor (Tandy thingy if i remember rightly) then used the ADC soundshaper until we got a flat response measurement and hey ho it made an old pair of Tangent something or others (RS4? Bextrine 8inch bass and audax tweeter?) sound very similar to a pair of untreated NS1000s (not the same detail but the same tonal character).

The problem with life is that venues add their own colour (a band sounds different at Earls Court or the NEC to what it does at the Hammersmith Odeon (ok its the Apollo now but will always be the odeon to me). So we rarely hear anything flat, but it can bring a little more life out of a bad design through using equalisation BUTTTTTTTTT it will never make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and it adds its own bit of character and sucks a bit of life out of the music.

So each to their own - if you have a bad room with a big bass resonances it may help it may not but go and have some fun trying. But my advice is buy decent kit in the first place and this kind of tampering will only make things worse

Uzzy

 

[garyi]

The trouble with all these devices and software is that gradually instead of enjoying music you are setting EQ.

It will get to a stage where you set the EQ depending on what track you have playing, I personally think this is detrimental to music enjoyment.

 

[Tune]

There are very big differences between graphic EQ and Parametric EQ or DRC. Massive in fact.

 

[technobear]

Well clothy, you might be interested in this then:

http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/default.asp?redirect=http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/stoneaudio/products/browser2.asp?MOVE=NEXT&manufacturerid=188&CurrentPage=9

http://pdf.crse.com/manuals/2688078112.pdf

(right click, save target as...)

Looks like an interesting bit of kit and at just £425 could be a real bargain.

It's the Sony TA-FA1200ES stereo integrated amp with one button room correction.

Not very flexible - it has a choice of just two correction styles - but a pointer to what we can expect in future on price. It includes S-Master Pro amps.

 

[technobear]

Cloth-Ears wrote:

:nup:nono no, that's not the sort of thing.

The point I was making is that the cost of digital signal processing in general (and room correction in particular) has come down dramatically. We no longer have to pay Lyngdorf's absurd prices

As for parametric EQ, I haven't been able to find any domestically acceptable units. If you know of any I'd appreciate some info.

 

[Tune]

What do you mean by domestically acceptable if I might ask?

 

[uzzy]

Said it before and will say it again - the only way to set it up is to use pink noise and flatten the response from the loudspeaker.

The extra electronics will have a detrimental affect and you will end up fiddling all the time trying to re produce albums and tracks where you do not like the way they were mixed before.

Sit back, chill, buy the best kit you can afford and listen to the music -stop looking for fault in your kit or it will become a holy grail.

Its a bit like if you are a bass freek and your listening room is small you will never achieve what you want in a small space so life is about compromise. Prime example is a car where the bass is all outside with a boom box and inside its just a muddy sound with no real definition.

God somewhere between flat earth and tinkerers there lies the truth.

Uzzy

 

[technobear]

Tune wrote:

What do you mean by domestically acceptable if I might ask?

I mean 'looks like hifi and has sockets like hifi'.

The Lyngdorf kit is nice but much too expensive.

Behringer and all the others I've seen look like they belong ina studio.

We all own at least one computer and digital signal processing is what computers do best. That's one avenue down which a reasonable cost solution may be found.

Then again, Sony have shown that kit with full digital room correction doesn't have to be expensive any more. What we now need is kit at the Sony price but with manual controls - effectively a digital parametric equaliser - so that we can fix the room boom and nothing else. And we need it to look like hifi, not like a Behringer DEQ with its gaudy graphics and rack mount wings.

Trying to fix everything kills the music.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

garyi wrote:

The trouble with all these devices and software is that gradually instead of enjoying music you are setting EQ. It will get to a stage where you set the EQ depending on what track you have playing, I personally think this is detrimental to music enjoyment.

fcuk me gary we agree on something :sw: