A crazy impromptu Qutest power supply bake off this morning.

[Psilonaught]

Hi Nick

A quick question on the nature of the changes. 

From our listening session on Saturday the difference between Zen Mini and Zenith was what I would call ‘hifi stuff’ eg detail etc. And it was the same between the Red Book CD track and Upsampled track and I mentioned this at the time.

But the difference between the Aries Mini and Zen Mini was a musical one eg bass drum was played differently, timbre was different etc.

Is the DC4 doing the ‘hifi stuff’ or the ‘musical stuff’.
 

was that comparing a mini without fancy outboard PSU Vs a Zenith?

Once I get my Temple Audio supercharger for my mini Mk2, I will be organising a home demo of a zenith mk3 to compare.

 

[TheFlash]

Interesting result. From some recent discussions on the forum, for my mind at least, I drew the conclusion that some, mainly digital kit benefits from cleaner power. This is in no way meaning to disrespect anyone incidentally, just my engineering observation. There is no obvious magic in the DC4, that I can see from the pictures on the web, unless you include the "nice electrolytics". On the other hand it would appear to do nothing particularly wrong, as it would be unlikely to generate much noise of  its own, although I could think of a few improvements in input-output isolation, which may or may not make any difference. Interesting to note it seems to use of the shelf linear regulators. With regards to using oversized power supplies for low level circuits, it is outside my experience, but I did visit Focusrite in the 90's and was surprised how many huge power supplies there mixing desk needed, hazy memory of several 1kW linear supplies, huge toroids. I questioned the size, for running a circuit that predominantly ran NE5532 opamps, but they said it sounded better....
I recently bought a Berisford DAC from the classified, and I am going to make a power supply for it. The one supplied is an ungrounded Maplin switcher, and I don't like being electrocuted by it (Y caps) whilst plugging it in to the rest of my grounded stereo. I don't think I will hear any difference (pre-emptive declaration of expectation bias).

There's definitely something going in with transformer size here but I don't understand electrickery sufficiently to explain what. A bit like the admittedly questionable rule of thumb which says if you are in doubt about which amplifier to choose, pick the heavier one... the DC2 (discontinued?), DC3 and DC4 increase in size and weight as you move up the models.  I don't think I've ever compared the DC3 and DC4 directly but I am happy to rely on the testimony of trustworthy/proven others.

FYI, on my pimped Node2i, I replaced a DC2 with an SBooster and that SBooster with a DC3, to audible advantage at each change (yes, I did audition before switching, it was not post-purchase confirmatory bias!).

 

[Ceko]

Have you ever tried the Qutest powered with a battery? Shouldn’t that deliver the cleanest power and thus the best soundquality you can get?

 

[DomT]

was that comparing a mini without fancy outboard PSU Vs a Zenith?

Once I get my Temple Audio supercharger for my mini Mk2, I will be organising a home demo of a zenith mk3 to compare.

Same power supply for both

 

[Griff500]

Have you ever tried the Qutest powered with a battery? Shouldn’t that deliver the cleanest power and thus the best soundquality you can get?

It should be clean but would it deliver the best sound quality? I wonder how well a battery would handle transients.

 

[Fourlegs]

Have you ever tried the Qutest powered with a battery? Shouldn’t that deliver the cleanest power and thus the best soundquality you can get?

No but I have tried other devices with batteries and it has not been much joy.

I have read that some users of ultra high end LPS use batteries as a power source for the LPS and they claim good results with that. However even those are now admitting that mains powered LPS are giving better ultimate SQ than the battery powered versions.

So it might be that batteries give modest sound quality improvements in some situations but that the very best mains powered LPS go even better.

 

[TheFlash]

Have you ever tried the Qutest powered with a battery? Shouldn’t that deliver the cleanest power and thus the best soundquality you can get?

If power supply improvements were all down to the elimination of noise you’d be correct, but then all (well-designed etc) linear PSUs would sound the same because they all do a decent job of being noise-free (or at least low-noise) vs your average switched mode PSU). They don’t. So there must be something else going on too. No, I don’t know what!

 

[Psilonaught]

It should be clean but would it deliver the best sound quality? I wonder how well a battery would handle transients.

isn't that what supercapacitors are supposed to solve? Purity of battery but with the added power?

 

[Firebottle]

If power supply improvements were all down to the elimination of noise you’d be correct, but then all (well-designed etc) linear PSUs would sound the same because they all do a decent job of being noise-free (or at least low-noise) vs your average switched mode PSU). They don’t. So there must be something else going on too. No, I don’t know what!

It's generally down to the output impedance being low over a very extended bandwidth. Designing for low noise and extended bandwidth is more tricky.

An off the shelf regulator chip is good at low frequency but has a rising output impedance with rising frequency.

 

[Griff500]

isn't that what supercapacitors are supposed to solve? Purity of battery but with the added power?

That's my understanding, hence their use in Chord's TT2, which doesn't seem to benefit much at all from upgraded power supplies.

 

[Ceko]

It should be clean but would it deliver the best sound quality? I wonder how well a battery would handle transients.

I really don’t know but I have a Qutest and if it can sound differently with different power supplies I’m mighty interested at how that’s possible. I’m just not willing to shell down 1000’s of euros. Too bad I can’t visit these bake-offs :-(

So it’s not only clean power but also something else I understand? Something that handles transients better? Just a question out of interest.

 

[Griff500]

I really don’t know but I have a Qutest and if it can sound differently with different power supplies I’m mighty interested at how that’s possible. I’m just not willing to shell down 1000’s of euros. Too bad I can’t visit these bake-offs :-(

So it’s not only clean power but also something else I understand? Something that handles transients better? Just a question out of interest.

My understanding is that transients represent a sudden and significant increase in power draw and that a battery might not handle that as well as mains power - something like that. I have not tried battery power - it's not something that I'd want in my setup - but I have made some effort with regard to the power distribution and cables. 

I'd definitely like to try a DC4 but might want to upgrade my speakers first.

 

[ziggy]

I really don’t know but I have a Qutest and if it can sound differently with different power supplies I’m mighty interested at how that’s possible. I’m just not willing to shell down 1000’s of euros. Too bad I can’t visit these bake-offs :-(

So it’s not only clean power but also something else I understand? Something that handles transients better? Just a question out of interest.

I have a Qutest and replaced the supplied power supply with a MCRU which improved SQ.  This was recently replaced by a Sbooster with Ultra Add On which brought about a far greater improvement.  I have found that the Qutest is very receptive to what is fed into it, the Mscaler transformed the sound and the Network Acoustics Eno filter brought about a big improvement.

The removed MCRU PS is now connected to a Topping E30 in the second system.  It is a major improvement on the battery which was previously powering it.

 

[Fourlegs]

I have a Qutest and replaced the supplied power supply with a MCRU which improved SQ.  This was recently replaced by a Sbooster with Ultra Add On which brought about a far greater improvement.  I have found that the Qutest is very receptive to what is fed into it, the Mscaler transformed the sound and the Network Acoustics Eno filter brought about a big improvement.

The removed MCRU PS is now connected to a Topping E30 in the second system.  It is a major improvement on the battery which was previously powering it.

QED.

 

[TheFlash]

isn't that what supercapacitors are supposed to solve? Purity of battery but with the added power?

I have a custom-built 5V OUT supercapacitor supply on my Node 2i in my Kendal man-cave. With an iFi iPower feeding it its 12v IN, it's a big step-up from stock but I think the SBooster outperforms it.

Shuffles following installation of the DC3 in Kendal will "liberate" either the supercap PSU or my Allo Shanti.

 

[Fourlegs]

I have a custom-built 5V OUT supercapacitor supply on my Node 2i in my Kendal man-cave. With an iFi iPower feeding it its 12v IN, it's a big step-up from stock but I think the SBooster outperforms it.

Shuffles following installation of the DC3 in Kendal will "liberate" either the supercap PSU or my Allo Shanti.

Knowing what is inside the supercap power supply, you could feed the DC3 into the supercap power supply instead of using the iFi iPower.  

That could be interesting. The voltage output of the DC3 would need adjusting but as you know, we can do that.

 

[TheFlash]

Knowing what is inside the supercap power supply, you could feed the DC3 into the supercap power supply instead of using the iFi iPower.  

That could be interesting. The voltage output of the DC3 would need adjusting but as you know, we can do that.

Happy to play! That would make for an interesting experiment.