A&R P77 cartridge

[leenorris78]

Hi All,

I will be getting my A&R A60 back soon as it is currently being restored back to its former glory. Well, it's a bit more than that, more like restored to its former glory with extras! I decided to throw money at the problem and what would usually be a £150 recap, I decided to spend nearly £600.

Having 1979 speakers (celestion 551), 1979 amp (A&R A60), 1979 TT (Technics 1210), I am thinking late 1970's cartridge? I already have a Grado F1+ but I feel the stylus needs a replacement. Should I stay or should I go?

So, is the P77 a good match for the phono stage? Or should I replace the diamond on the Grado?

I understand Synergy is a thing. One combo works, another combo doesn't. Thats why I'm being specific with my kit list.

Many thanks, Lee

 

[Nopiano]

Have you already got a P77, because I’m not sure how easily acquired they are now, nor whether new styli are available?

Grado designs are lovely imo, and evolve slowly, so even a brand new one will have much of the 1970/80s character.  If you change your current stylus, you probably know it can be a bit tricky as the stylus sits in a sort of goo.  

Are records your primary source, and what budget are you allowing?  

 

[Jazid]

The P77 is overrated Emperors NOS clothes, just ditch it. A new Nagaoka will fit the bill for less and cause less pain.

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[lazycat]

I'd go for the P77. 'sure I've read somewhere that ESCO do a replacement stylus if you ask nicely.

IIRC(from my youth) Grados are useful for cleaning under ones fingernails but very little else. It may have been a arm/cart mismatch tho'.

But probably not.

As an aside, how did you manage to spend £600 on fettling an A60? Genuinely interested.

 

[JANDL100]

Must admit this thread made me laugh, showing as it does both the wonderful eccentricities and extreme divergences of opinion to be found on the Wam...

Dropping 600 spondoolies on an A&R A60 refurb. Grado carts are great - no, they're rubbish. I wouldn't touch a P77 with a barge pole - no, they're excellent. 

What a great forum and a wonderful hobby.

Fwiw (not a lot) I didn't like the Grado carts I tried (1 lowish end, 1 high end - both were laid back and boring for my tastes) but was seriously impressed by an A&R cartridge. 

If it were me following the OP's 1970s agenda, I'd probably go for a Dynavector /Ultimo 10x high output MC cart, introduced in 1978, I believe. Wonderful things, full of the light and life of real music. 

And I'd genuinely love to hear what a £600 refurb will do for an A60. 

 

[Lurch]

@leenorris78 if your in no rush for the P77 then I have 2 floating about (both currently on loan) once I get one of them back I'd be happy to let you have it. To my ears they are wonderful sounding MMs and are fitted as standard with a paratrace stylus. Infact I've recently been lucky enough to score an original Mg body, the same as I had on my 1st deck. 

 

[leenorris78]

@leenorris78 if your in no rush for the P77 then I have 2 floating about (both currently on loan) once I get one of them back I'd be happy to let you have it. To my ears they are wonderful sounding MMs and are fitted as standard with a paratrace stylus. Infact I've recently been lucky enough to score an original Mg body, the same as I had on my 1st deck. 

Hi,

That would be amazing. Let me know when its available and I would love to give it a go to see what it sounds like.

I should get the amp back possibly next week. I'm in no rush as I have my Audio Technica 440 mob and the Grado to keep me going.

Once again, many thanks.

 

[leenorris78]

Must admit this thread made me laugh, showing as it does both the wonderful eccentricities and extreme divergences of opinion to be found on the Wam...

Dropping 600 spondoolies on an A&R A60 refurb. Grado carts are great - no, they're rubbish. I wouldn't touch a P77 with a barge pole - no, they're excellent. 

What a great forum and a wonderful hobby.

Fwiw (not a lot) I didn't like the Grado carts I tried (1 lowish end, 1 high end - both were laid back and boring for my tastes) but was seriously impressed by an A&R cartridge. 

If it were me following the OP's 1970s agenda, I'd probably go for a Dynavector /Ultimo 10x high output MC cart, introduced in 1978, I believe. Wonderful things, full of the light and life of real music. 

And I'd genuinely love to hear what a £600 refurb will do for an A60. 

I know what you mean. The At440mlb was sounding not to my liking through the Moon I-5/trichord dino combo. The same was heard through the Rotel RX203 with me much preferring the Grado over the AT. Through the A60, pre refurbishment, the extra detail of the AT sounded better than the Grado.

As always, there is never a better this or that component, its the component that works for you in your hifi chain.

 

[rabski]

I know what you mean. The At440mlb was sounding not to my liking through the Moon I-5/trichord dino combo. The same was heard through the Rotel RX203 with me much preferring the Grado over the AT. Through the A60, pre refurbishment, the extra detail of the AT sounded better than the Grado.

As always, there is never a better this or that component, its the component that works for you in your hifi chain.

The AT440 is very sensitive to capacitive loading, so it's often difficult to directly compare. It works way better with relatively very low loading (about 100pF) and a lot of phono stage/cable combinations will make it sound a touch dull.

 

[leenorris78]

Have you already got a P77, because I’m not sure how easily acquired they are now, nor whether new styli are available?

Grado designs are lovely imo, and evolve slowly, so even a brand new one will have much of the 1970/80s character.  If you change your current stylus, you probably know it can be a bit tricky as the stylus sits in a sort of goo.  

Are records your primary source, and what budget are you allowing?  

I like the Grado as it has a nice open soundstage and is more of a fun cartridge rather than outright detail. I was on the lookout for replacement stylus such as the 8mz, XTZ, MCZ and there is a seller on eBay with these now in stock. Apparently, Grado has made them recently but they are a bit spendy.

 

[Beobloke]

And I'd genuinely love to hear what a £600 refurb will do for an A60. 

I’d genuinely like to know what they did for £600. For that amount, I’d expect my A60 back with major parts gold plated and the case covered in finest leather with silk stitching.

Either that or the amp back refurbished, plus a bag containing £450 in cash!

 

[JamieMcC]

I use a A&R P77 mg body fitted with a Jico SAS 1 stylus on my Thornens TD125. Personally I preferred it to both the Denon 103r  and Shure v15 mkiii which I purchased to compare directly with the P77 Jico combination a few years back.

 

[It Cost How Much!?!]

P77 is a bit average, for.what they cost you can have something much better in my view. I own a P77 and a E77, I much prefer the Supex SM100E or Dynavector above. 

 

[uzzy]

I always found the A&R P series to be dull and lifeless .. in fact comparing to the F1+ you have I would have expected you to hear chalk and cheese difference.   Now do not get me wrong I can understand why some people like the A&R cartridges after all we all have our own ideas of what sounds right, but what I cannot get my head around is someone having a Grado (and happy with it) hankering after an A&R as to my ears they are totally at each end of the spectrum.

Personal view is if I was in your shoes and not wanting to explore the MC world I would checkout the Goldring G1042, The Ortofon 2m Bronze of Black or the Audio Technica equivalents.   I am biases as moving magnets go I do have a soft spot for the G1042 .. to me it is a bit of a magician as it gives a natural warmth and loads of detail without ever getting on your nerves .. as a mate's missus put it when choosing some loudspeakers "i think I can hear a bit more on those but I like it much better on these" - that to me sums up the 1042 .. 

If you really really really love the Grado then the obvious choice is to get a new stylus for it .. but if you can try to get your ears around the above first.

 

[Colinjg]

P77 is a bit average, for.what they cost you can have something much better in my view. I own a P77 and a E77, I much prefer the Supex SM100E or Dynavector above. 

:^

 

[Jazid]

I always found the A&R P series to be dull and lifeless .. in fact comparing to the F1+ you have I would have expected you to hear chalk and cheese difference.   Now do not get me wrong I can understand why some people like the A&R cartridges after all we all have our own ideas of what sounds right, but what I cannot get my head around is someone having a Grado (and happy with it) hankering after an A&R as to my ears they are totally at each end of the spectrum.

Personal view is if I was in your shoes and not wanting to explore the MC world I would checkout the Goldring G1042, The Ortofon 2m Bronze of Black or the Audio Technica equivalents.   I am biases as moving magnets go I do have a soft spot for the G1042 .. to me it is a bit of a magician as it gives a natural warmth and loads of detail without ever getting on your nerves .. as a mate's missus put it when choosing some loudspeakers "i think I can hear a bit more on those but I like it much better on these" - that to me sums up the 1042 .. 

If you really really really love the Grado then the obvious choice is to get a new stylus for it .. but if you can try to get your ears around the above first.

Amen to every single part of that post! 1042 is a lovely cartridge, as are some of the low end Ortofons, absolutely miles more enjoyment to my ears than the dull as dust P77. I bought one in the very early 80s on the back of reviews, swapped it in for the Dual/Ortofon in my CS501 mk 2, and promptly stopped listening to music for over a decade, until CD became established in fact. Never made the connection...Eventually I bought a Rega P2 with some lowly Rega cart in it and started listening to vinyl again, and this last decade I've moved to MC, moving iron, and a Staunton, and listen much more to vinyl, like in my youth.

Hence my strong reaction to the P77, it knocked me off listening to music for a chunk of my life, its really that good (IMHO). But if you like what it does all power to you, horses for courses and all that [emoji4]

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[Lurch]

As I said earlier in this thread, when 1 of my 2 P77s comes back the OP can have a play with it. If he likes it then he cn buy it of me, if not just send it back and he will have sratched that itch for the cost of a stamp. 

 

[Boris the Animal]

I have fond memories of my P77 in my youth and I also remember the improvement gained by having it ‘Stiltoned’ by Stilton Audio (metal body). I later used a Goldring G1042 and that would be my recommendation. It is consistent with the period (I think) and is such a lovely cartridge - a very ‘safe’ choice.

 

[TIU]

Must admit this thread made me laugh, showing as it does both the wonderful eccentricities and extreme divergences of opinion to be found on the Wam...

Dropping 600 spondoolies on an A&R A60 refurb. Grado carts are great - no, they're rubbish. I wouldn't touch a P77 with a barge pole - no, they're excellent.

What a great forum and a wonderful hobby.

Fwiw (not a lot) I didn't like the Grado carts I tried (1 lowish end, 1 high end - both were laid back and boring for my tastes) but was seriously impressed by an A&R cartridge.

If it were me following the OP's 1970s agenda, I'd probably go for a Dynavector /Ultimo 10x high output MC cart, introduced in 1978, I believe. Wonderful things, full of the light and life of real music.

And I'd genuinely love to hear what a £600 refurb will do for an A60.

Isn't he only MM equipped?

Why the hell have I resurrected this thread?

 

[JANDL100]

Isn't he only MM equipped?

Why the hell have I resurrected this thread?

The cartridge I recommended is, as stated, a high output mc and should work fine into a mm input.

And I have no idea why you resurrected this thread, especially as you did so with an invalid and irrelevant comment.