appraisal of the wigwam cable test

[ditton]

Mosfet asked me to comment on the methods and data for this exercise.

Here is my report. you are seeing this at the same time as Mosfet.

 

[rockmeister]

thanks for your contribution. I'm sure that some of us are wiser now, a few of us are not, another few might be and three or four aren't sure.

Me... I'm still just listening and making up my own mind.

 

[wolfgang]

Full marks to Ditton for writting the first stats report that I actually managed to read in full without induced to sleep.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

Very interesting, but why ? yes why bother ? its your money your ears........ who cares if someone posts "there are no differances, my ten bob cables from dixons is great"

if someone one thinks this and are happy with the sound good luck to them.

BUT if anyone thinks there mains will benefit from a £200 mains lead, and when they buy the lead and are happy then so be it.

The person happy with a ten bob lead has the chance thanks to Russ Andrews and at least a couple of forum users to try different leads, without getting there hands burnt via a money back if not happy purchase

time spent testing leads is ok, but when it gets to the stage that time listening to music is cut down its time to stop

 

[Kiang]

Thanks ditton.

For further tests there are two core issues I think.

1.We accept that subjective opinion is a valid tool(perhaps the only accepted tool) for discerning and appreciating the differences in cables, and design a test accordingly.

2.We do not accept the above and design a test to validate the tool itself for which we need objective evidence between mains cables - and alas there is none .

The previous test was trying to do a test it now seems with a tool that was also not validated as a definitive testing tool(skeptics think so anyway)

It is perhaps suggestive that the two cannot be achieved in one test.

Would it be fair to assume that the human ear(belonging to the purchaser afterall) be given the credit it is due and accept its judgement as a validated tool?

 

[ditton]

I hope folk dont mind if I dont post replies to every comment - that might cost me a lot of time. So thanks to all who say thanks, and cheers to those who are not interested in tea-tasting - I agree that there is more to life.

I do think that we have to accept that subjective opinion is a valid tool for discerning and appreciating the differences in cables. I would not go as far as to say that it is the only accepted tool, but its what counts for me.

I do think that we should therefore design a test accordingly.

That said, we need a method that allows us to assess the reliability, and perhaps the accuracy, of subjective opinion.

Combining experiments (generally used to test) and surveys (generally used to sample opinion) is difficult and rare.

"Would it be fair to assume that the human ear(belonging to the purchaser afterall) be given the credit it is due and accept its judgement as a validated tool?"

if by that you mean that the market is king, then no I don't take the best sellers as my guide.

 

[Picard]

having spent the last couple of months searching for right wires for my system and in the process testingnumerous brands of i/cs, spkr cables and pwr cords (sample of one; review to follow when i get around to it), i have watched these cable threads with interest, notably the wigwam test and subsequent commentary. while congrats should go to all involved and ditton for his paper, i learned only one thing: nothing changes when it comes to these cable debates. the definition of madness is...

i'm withDWYA on this one.

 

[Kiang]

ditton wrote:

"Would it be fair to assume that the human ear(belonging to the purchaser afterall) be given the credit it is due and accept its judgement as a validated tool?"

if by that you mean that the market is king, then no I don't take the best sellers as my guide.

By that I mean that under the circumstances, available tools and largely considered the only relevant, it is the only tool of any credence and has to be taken as conclusive.

Most take it as conclusive when you go out to buy a loudspeaker anyway inspite of plenty of available data on the product which may be used for that purpose to perhaps help shop from your study.

 

[Mr Coherent]

A big thanks to ditton for corralating and compliling the stats

Mr.C

 

[purplepleaser]

Hi Ditton, thanks for the appraisal.

Lee

 

[mosfet]

Thanks ditton.

I’ve added your principle findings to the test results http://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum1/1104-1.html

This adds to the qualitative value to the test (having expressed the same by PM) irrespective of the differing opinions that have been expressed on the results.

Cup of tea? Well I’m not having any of this round tea bag stuff of course

 

[ditton]

tea bags - that's fighting talk ...

 

[Davewhityetagain]

Cup of tea? Well I’m not having any of this round tea bag stuff Cup of tea? Well I’m not having any of this round tea bag stuff of courseof course

:dude:

Round

Square

Pyramid

tea pot

pre warmed

milk first

lemon

Sugar

China Indian?

[align=left]









































http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...amp;Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=1865

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...amp;Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=1983

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...amp;Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=1895

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...Y&Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=GF

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...amp;Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=1986

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...amp;Store_Code=TBSRJTC&Category_Code=1908

http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Mer...TC&Category_Code=1866_tea_kettle_electric

.
[/align]

 

[ditton]

"So, how to end. I think that the judgement on the null hypotheses is 'not proven', to use a judgement in Scots Law" [Page 6]

" The number of judges in the panel is not itself a weakness. Three is few but this was not an attempt to generalise from the few to the many. ... The principal weakness of the design, to go straight for the jugular, is that there is no repeated measurement ... Unless [...] , there is no basis for statistical inference. ... had the panel of three judges been exposed to only three specialist cables, each being listened to twice, the 'experiment' would have much stronger. [Page 4]

 

[mosfet]

ditton, you have PM at ZG