CD vs vinyl: time for a reassessment?

[cobbler]

It's interesting that lots of wammers have several turntables on the go, can't think of any that use multiple cd players. Is this due to sonic differences or just pride of ownership :dunno: Can't deny there are some stunning looking turntables on the Wam.

 

[dudywoxer]

Last month's Hi-Fi World had an interesting measurement of the latest Arcam CD player with Network connection. From CD and from a plugged in memory card it was equally good but the Ethernet implementation was rubbish with figures that were considerably worse. That's an example that shows there exists at least one product where the audio quality is measurably worse when via Ethernet.We can speculate why, it might be an earth loop or just a bad circuit layout picking up noise somehow.

This was not the case when other streamers were measured (Linn, Naim, Chord) but it does show a poor Ethernet implementation can add noise.

if that really is the case the should take it off the market it is broken.

 

[Tel]

It's interesting that lots of wammers have several turntables on the go, can't think of any that use multiple cd players. Is this due to sonic differences or just pride of ownership :dunno: Can't deny there are some stunning looking turntables on the Wam.

No point, all CD players sound the same!

Apart from the fact that turntables are great bits of engineering and there is loads to look at and tweek the main reason is probably cartridges.

To get the best from my records I would ideally like a choice of three carts, an Io, and SPU (Jazz doesn't sound any better) and a dedicated mono cart for my collection of mono records.

Three carts means three arms and that really means at least two turntables.

The turntables themselves all have different characteristics too.

Plus I think the reason some people have a lot of turntables is because they can

 

[Springbeg]

No point, all CD players sound the same! Apart from the fact that turntables are great bits of engineering and there is loads to look at and tweek the main reason is probably cartridges.

To get the best from my records I would ideally like a choice of three carts, an Io, and SPU (Jazz doesn't sound any better) and a dedicated mono cart for my collection of mono records.

Three carts means three arms and that really means at least two turntables.

The turntables themselves all have different characteristics too.

Plus I think the reason some people have a lot of turntables is because they can

Absolute nonsense. My Arc CD5 has a very different character to my MCD550.

 

[Tel]

Absolute nonsense. My Arc CD5 has a very different character to my MCD550.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon

 

[Pussycat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon

Ah, so that was a 'tongue in cheek' emoticon. S/s CDPs may have similar presentation, but valved CDPs are another thing entirely.

 

[Tel]

Ah, so that was a 'tongue in cheek' emoticon. S/s CDPs may have similar presentation, but valved CDPs are another thing entirely.

Different CDPs have different DACS so may well sound different, when you deliberately add distortion with a valve output stage then all bets are off.

 

[pmac]

No point, all CD players sound the same! Apart from the fact that turntables are great bits of engineering and there is loads to look at and tweek the main reason is probably cartridges.

To get the best from my records I would ideally like a choice of three carts, an Io, and SPU (Jazz doesn't sound any better) and a dedicated mono cart for my collection of mono records.

Three carts means three arms and that really means at least two turntables.

The turntables themselves all have different characteristics too.

Plus I think the reason some people have a lot of turntables is because they can

Most of that applies to me, particularly the chance to use different arm/cartridge/SUT combinations and see what suits particular genres of music, as well as the mono/stereo bit. Of course, the decks themselves impart their own sonic signature too, so it's all good fun and a never ending source of pleasure to me. :stereo:

And, before anybody leaps in, I've never claimed "high fidelity" just satisfying "musical" enjoyment :TheBird:

 

[tackleberry]

CD players 101'd with cables now then....

 

[SergeAuckland]

I use three turntables rather than multi arms, mostly because two of my turntables have their own integrated arms. Also, although I fail to hear differences between the turntables, they look different and have different design decisions taken. The AEG is a direct drive with an AC motor, the EMT is a direct drive with a DC motor, and the 401 is an idler drive and both AEG and EMT are beautifully engineered, with the 401 being pure nostalgia.

However, none can hold a candle to digital when it comes to making music, with no noise, no clicks, vanishingly low distortion and the convenience of streaming. I still play LPs a couple of evenings a week, whilst the CD player is used perhaps a couple of times a year.

S

 

[sunbeamgls]

Serge, would you be able to measure differences between your turntables excluding arm and cart? Or including the same arm and cart across multiple turntables?

 

[SergeAuckland]

Serge, would you be able to measure differences between your turntables excluding arm and cart? Or including the same arm and cart across multiple turntables?

I've measured the turntables' performance in terms of speed accuracy, W&F and rumble, and there's not a lot between them with the 401 being slightly worse. RIAA Eq is comfortably within 1dB on all three phono stages, so only real difference is the cartridges, but as I've chosen cartridges with pretty flat frequency responses and line contact stylii, there's not much difference there, so all that's left are secondary effects like feedback, which in my case is very low on all three. This may be the reason I'm not very conscious of any great differences. They sound the same because essentially they are!

If they were different, it would drive me mad, as either they would all be wrong, albeit in different ways, or one was right, and the others were wrong so would never get used.

S

 

[pmac]

I use three turntables rather than multi arms, mostly because two of my turntables have their own integrated arms. Also, although I fail to hear differences between the turntables, they look different and have different design decisions taken. The AEG is a direct drive with an AC motor, the EMT is a direct drive with a DC motor, and the 401 is an idler drive and both AEG and EMT are beautifully engineered, with the 401 being pure nostalgia. However, none can hold a candle to digital when it comes to making music, with no noise, no clicks, vanishingly low distortion and the convenience of streaming. I still play LPs a couple of evenings a week, whilst the CD player is used perhaps a couple of times a year.

S

Serge, are you really saying that you can't tell any difference in the sound from your 401 and the other two?

 

[SergeAuckland]

Serge, are you really saying that you can't tell any difference in the sound from your 401 and the other two?

Correct.

I generally play side 1 on the AEG, Side 2 on the EMT, then Side 1 on the 401, then side 2 back on the AEG as all three are interchangeable as far as I'm concerned. I would be upset if they weren't.

S

 

[pmac]

Correct.I generally play side 1 on the AEG, Side 2 on the EMT, then Side 1 on the 401, then side 2 back on the AEG as all three are interchangeable as far as I'm concerned. I would be upset if they weren't.

S

I'm shocked, really.

 

[incognito73]

CD (and vinyl) as a medium is reliable and secure. In digital terms, your ISP may fail, your network streaming provider (service) may fail, your local network may fail, your NAS may fail, your disk drivers may fail, your data and the file system may become corrupted. It needs a lot of technical nursing and I do understand people reluctant to move on. However, when done right is superb platform. Sonically too. These days you may find marvellous DACs for really decent sum and challenging CD players many times the price.. Digitally brewed music library may offer instant access to your collection from any compatible client device, instant search, instant mood based playlists, amazing GUIs ... it is an unwritten future.

All those theories that method of digital medium transport (network, wireless, local disk drive, local CD) sounds different are absolute mumbo jumbo. Data is there or not. Corrupted or not. DACs do colour the final output and that's where it is.

I predict bleak feature for CD platform. Actually ... back to the OP questioning ... fair game would be that you go analogue all the way (turntables) vs "modern" digital (either streamed or not). As patch work you may have hybrid CD/DACs machines for time being.

 

[THOMO]

From unclepuncle in another thread.

This ties in with my experience.

Of course if you have a crappy CD player[and most are] then streaming or computer audio might sound better.

Compare it to a GOOD CD player like a Vitus,Accuphase [DP700 or DP720] or a Krell KAV300CD and it does not sound so good.

...."There was a bakeoff a year or two back when some well respected wammers (Bob, Jerry, Mark etc) compared Bobs Krell KPS transport and Marks Slim Devices Transporter (not sure if it was Modwrighted at that stage) into the same DAC and iirc there were broadly similar conclusions - CD transport beats streamer.

And iirc when they used the Krell as a standalone player using it's own DAC (rather than just a transport) it was another big leap forward."

 

[vacdac]

From unclepuncle in another thread.This ties in with my experience.

Of course if you have a crappy CD player[and most are] then streaming or computer audio might sound better.

Compare it to a GOOD CD player like a Vitus,Accuphase [DP700 or DP720] or a Krell KAV300CD and it does not sound so good.

...."There was a bakeoff a year or two back when some well respected wammers (Bob, Jerry, Mark etc) compared Bobs Krell KPS transport and Marks Slim Devices Transporter (not sure if it was Modwrighted at that stage) into the same DAC and iirc there were broadly similar conclusions - CD transport beats streamer.

And iirc when they used the Krell as a standalone player using it's own DAC (rather than just a transport) it was another big leap forward."

:doh: Pretty poor post, that doesn't make much sense & is anecdotal at best. Please quote properly & link to any posts/threads as necessary & try & make some cogent points if you can. :roll:

 

[Butuz]

Interesting thread. Previously my ~£1k vinyl set up trounced my ~£1k CD player - now I've added a Dac that was £4k in 1992 (so whats that in noawadays terms, £10k+??) and the CD now trounces the vinyl set up.

It's all about how much you spend on each really.

One things for sure, I don't value the "romanticism" of constantly pissing around cleaning records, having to change the side every 3 tracks, and listening to dust being tickled out he way. CD is definably a superior format!

 

[sonichit]

Oh how i would love to be young again