DIY rack isolation advice

[This boy can wait]

Hello everyone,

I’d like some advice on isolation for a cheap hifi rack I’ve made using an Ikea bedside table made from bamboo ([NORDKISA bamboo https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/nordkisa-bedside-table-bamboo-00430745/ ) with a support for my turntable made from a bamboo Ikea chopping board (Lamplig), which later had to be elevated  to give the Sugden room to cool (photos attached). £69 all in, plus some coach bolts and granite chopping boards I had lying around.

My question about isolation is prompted by a little speaker isolation experiment with my Proac D15s comparing straight screw-in feet, standard Iso-pucks and some Ceraball clones that I've been lent to try. The Iso-pucks were the clear winner, which surprised me because the speakers wobble all over the shop. Since for the last 25 years in hifi the only thing I thought I knew for certain was that speakers should be rock solid so that they can move air effectively, I have concluded that I don’t really know anything about anything.

So with respect to isolation options for my rack and components. Am I better off isolating the whole thing on something elastic like the heavy duty Iso-puck 76s or perhaps just having it straight onto my hard, non-suspended floor and then experimenting with Iso-puck minis (or something else) under various components (USB>SPDIF converter, DAC and Amp)? Or maybe rack isolation plus individual component isolation - too much wobble??

I realise these are things that I can just experiment with but there are a hell of a lot of combinations and so any insights based on knowledge or experience would be much appreciated!

Many thanks,

Stef

p.s. Would have put this in DIY but thought it would be an insult to those doing proper hifi DIY..

 

[lostwin]

Nice job on the rack

Bamboo seems to have pretty good qualities for audio purposes, I have just crafted a replacement arm board from some bamboo drinks coasters and I am liking the results.

For me the trick to isolation is getting the balance right between effective deadening but without going to far and sucking the life out of the presentation. A combination of materials that retain a bit of life but don’t have a pronounced ‘ring’ placed on absorbing supports seems to work best.

my inclination would be to keep things simple under the legs of the rack and focus on isolating the individual shelves. Take a look at the spring supports sold under the Nobsound brand as an option on the Isopucks. 

And yes, damped wobbling movement on speakers works fine for me too!

 

 

[This boy can wait]

Thanks Richard. Yes, I was attracted by the fact it was made of bamboo.

Ok, I'll take it slowly and will check out the Nobsound spring supports. 

Thanks again.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Also consider that having the rack in a corner will put probably it in an area of bass "boom".  You may not be able to put it anywhere else (like me) but bear it in mind.

 

[t1no]

That first from the top granite chopping board looks a bit precarious to me hanging on the edge over an open void. Otherwise good job.

 

[This boy can wait]

Also consider that having the rack in a corner will put probably it in an area of bass "boom".  You may not be able to put it anywhere else (like me) but bear it in mind.

Thanks, yes, not a great position but it’s that or nothing.


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[This boy can wait]

That first from the top granite chopping board looks a bit precarious to me hanging on the edge over an open void. Otherwise good job.

Thanks. For that top chopping board I glued some plastic stoppers underneath it to prevent it being knocked off.


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[t1no]

Thanks. For that top chopping board I glued some plastic stoppers underneath it to prevent it being knocked off

Maybe a thin strip of black neoprene foam on the leading hanging edges of the granite to isolate it from the rack or have you already thought of that too

 

[This boy can wait]

[emoji106]
Maybe a thin strip of black neoprene foam on the leading hanging edges of the granite to isolate it from the rack or have you already thought of that too [emoji4]

You’re ahead of me there, good idea!


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[t1no]

You’re ahead of me there, good idea!

You are welcome to the idea ... especially since I might steal your IKEA bamboo rack idea

 

[This boy can wait]

You are welcome to the idea ... especially since I might steal your IKEA bamboo rack idea

Please do! If I were doing it again I might add a bit of bracing by glueing small right-angled triangles of bamboo to some of the joints. These could be cut from the drawer fronts and sides that you don't use. As it is there's a little bit of movement if you give it a nudge.

Having said that, maybe that's why it sounds good - I remember taking my A21 amp to Sugden's to get a phono stage added and asked Patrick Miller if they wouldn't mind vacuuming out the dust while they were in there. He said, "why would you do that?.. that's probably why it's sounding so good". That little comment helped me a lot over the years..

Good luck if you do go for it.

 

[Nopiano]

These things are pretty complicated and, as you know, everything seems to have a direct or indirect effect on everything else! 

Speaker isolation with various feet is a relatively new idea, having been told for ages to make the speaker rigid - as you say. The idea was that tiny movements from the speakers can’t be blurred by the cabinet moving.  Now, several manufacturers, including Q Acoustics, who’ve done so widely, use flexible soft materials or fastenings.  This converse idea seems to prevent the woofer vibrating the tweeter, for example, and reduces interaction with the cabinet. 
 

In your room, my hunch is that isolation of the speaker from the floor helps reduce vibrations reaching the kit on its stand. That will be highly beneficial.   The question then is should you try to better secure your kit, with heavy stands and floor spikes, or isolate it further with wobbly springs, absorbers and suchlike?  I’ve no idea, though I know that the close corner location won’t be helping at all. 

 

[uzzy]

Bamboo seems to have pretty good qualities for audio purposes, I have just crafted a replacement arm board from some bamboo drinks coasters and I am liking the results.

Seems it is a good tonewood too - Yamaha made an accoustic guitar (not cheap was about £500 in the late 90s I recall) from Bamboo.

As to a wooden rack I would be tempted to make some outriggers to fix to the back that you could then screw it to the wall behind (that will stop the bloody thing shaking if someone nudges it) .. one day I will get round to routing a piece of wood to slide over the top fixed shelf on my Sounds Unique rack and screw the block to the wall to provide some more rigidity.  

 

[This boy can wait]

Thanks for the comments everyone. It seems like I may have more of an issue with the confined corner placement than I realised. Things are still sounding good though so it could be worse. I will experiment, one move at a time.

 

[t1no]

Thanks for the comments everyone. It seems like I may have more of an issue with the confined corner placement than I realised. Things are still sounding good though so it could be worse. I will experiment, one move at a time.

It must be a pain putting on a new record on your turntable given the corner placement ... much twisting and stretching over the sofa??

 

[This boy can wait]

It must be a pain putting on a new record on your turntable given the corner placement ... much twisting and stretching over the sofa??

I don't currently have a cartridge so there has been no twisting or stretching yet. For domestic reasons my system was moth-balled for ~8 years and at that point I decided to sell my cartridge. I'm currently trying to decide what to do on the vinyl front. I'm imagining it's the vinyl replay that would be most susceptible to the corner location. 

I have to say that the whole system seems to sound better than it did 8 years ago. It could be that the corner placement is less of a problem because it's part of a much larger kitchen-diner area. I guess it's more likely that either the electrics in this new-build are clearer or something, or perhaps even more likely, some 10 years into raising children, I am cherishing every precious moment I have listening to my system all the more!

 

[This boy can wait]

I know that the close corner location won’t be helping at all. 

This is probably a stupid question but I imagine that the problems that may be resulting from me having to site my hifi in a corner are most likely to be manifest with vinyl replay? 

I'm currently trying to decide how much to invest in a cartridge for my turntable and understanding the potential constraints of the corner location will inform this decision.

Many thanks

 

[Nopiano]

This is probably a stupid question but I imagine that the problems that may be resulting from me having to site my hifi in a corner are most likely to be manifest with vinyl replay? 

I'm currently trying to decide how much to invest in a cartridge for my turntable and understanding the potential constraints of the corner location will inform this decision.

Many thanks

Yes, any output from the nearby speaker, especially the lower frequencies, will vibrate the turntable/arm/cartridge combination.  It’s pretty much impossible to predict how that might manifest itself, short of full on feedback at high volumes.  And even slight changes of position, or materials the turntable sits on, may improve or impair things.  
It is probably going to be a bit ‘trial and error’, so you might consider a budget cartridge first, and migrate upwards if that works well.  I had a spare cartridge you could’ve borrowed but I recently passed it onto another Wammer.  Something like this AT-VM95e is ideal, imo.  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264122751913

 

[This boy can wait]

Yes, any output from the nearby speaker, especially the lower frequencies, will vibrate the turntable/arm/cartridge combination.  It’s pretty much impossible to predict how that might manifest itself, short of full on feedback at high volumes.  And even slight changes of position, or materials the turntable sits on, may improve or impair things.  
It is probably going to be a bit ‘trial and error’, so you might consider a budget cartridge first, and migrate upwards if that works well.  I had a spare cartridge you could’ve borrowed but I recently passed it onto another Wammer.  Something like this AT-VM95e is ideal, imo.  
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/264122751913

Thanks Nick, as I suspected. If that cheap cartridge gets your recommendation as a tester, that's a great idea.

Slight complication in that I've found that the system sounds better without the weight of the turntable sitting on top. Completely serendipitous discovery while I was messing with cabling at the back. Thought I was imagining it but then carried out an test involving my wife adding and removing a 10 kg dumb-bell on top the rack. She wasn't really committed to the experiment so only got a few reps in but I'm convinced enough that there's something to look into. The entire rack is sitting on four sorbothane feet and I guess load-wise things are working without the turntable. Lots to keep me busy..