Help Choosing A Phono Stage

[gazcarts]

Hi all,

I'm currently running my Technics SL-1200 Mk2 with OL1 arm, Tecnoweight and Dynavector 10x5, through a humble Pro-ject Phono Box (original version, albeit the Limited Edition Gold version). The Phono Box feeds into a Tag Mclaren DPA32R pre-amp/DAC, then a pair of Tag Mclaren 125M monoblocs.

I realise my turntable isn't high end, but I think the Phono Box is holding it back. There's a huge selection of phono stages on the market, and although I've studied many reviewss and opinions, I'm still unsure what to go for. It doesn't help that I live in Aberdeenshire, with only a couple of dealers offering the usual Pro-ject stuff.

So I have a list of phono stages, at various price points, that I'm considering. Clearly, the most expensive ones below will be better than the cheaper ones, so it's not just a case of going for the most expensive one. Given my system, I want to get something that will be a big improvement on the Phono Box, butnot one that is far too good for my turntable. Upper price limit is £500, but naturally I'd like to spend less if possible.

Here's the list:-

Lower Priced: Cambridge Audio 640P, Nad PP2/PP3, Rega Fono

Mid-priced: Creek OBH-15, Edwards Audio MC-1/MM-1, Project Tube Box II, Graham Slee stuff

Upper Priced: Pure Sound P10, Croft Acoustics Micro 25 Basic or RIAA, Lehmann Black Cube, Dynavector P75

I'm really interested to hear from people who have used any of the above, with comparisons if possible.

Thank you.

Gary

 

[JANDL100]

The Cambridge is fair for the money, but it's very grey tonally and limited dynamically. It really is worth spending more for your setup, imo.

I've had are a Musical Fidelity XLPS3/PSU - that was similar to to the Cambridge, but better, but not that much better!

I now have a Loricraft Missing Link phonostage which is very good at the £400-£600 mark, and is well worth considering. I picked mine up for £200 used. Mines a low output mc version, but you can get them set up for any cartridge. It seems tome to be hugely better than the CA or MF.

You should also probably consider some valve phonostages like the Bellari mm stage.

A Project Tube Box was pretty good, I could have lived with that if the upgrade bug hadn't bitten! A substantial improvement on the CA.

Graham Slee phonostages are also well thought of, although I have only tried a £100 or so model (it was significantly better than the CA).

Sorry to add more to your list!

 

[Draconis]

What about a Trichord Dino? I use one and it is great...definitely quieter than the Project Tube box too...

 

[gazcarts]

JANDL100 wrote:

The Cambridge is fair for the money, but it's very grey tonally and limited dynamically. It really is worth spending more for your setup, imo.I've had are a Musical Fidelity XLPS3/PSU - that was similar to to the Cambridge, but better, but not that much better!

I now have a Loricraft Missing Link phonostage which is very good at the £400-£600 mark, and is well worth considering. I picked mine up for £200 used. Mines a low output mc version, but you can get them set up for any cartridge. It seems tome to be hugely better than the CA or MF.

You should also probably consider some valve phonostages like the Bellari mm stage.

A Project Tube Box was pretty good, I could have lived with that if the upgrade bug hadn't bitten! A substantial improvement on the CA.

Graham Slee phonostages are also well thought of, although I have only tried a £100 or so model (it was significantly better than the CA).

Sorry to add more to your list!

Don't worry about that; it's good to have alternative suggestions. At least I can strike the CA off the list. I haven't heard of the Loricraft Missing Link, so I'll look into that. Is it like the Micro Groove, where you have to get it set to your particular cartridge? Ideally I'd like something a bit more flexible.

Thanks

Gary

 

[gazcarts]

Draconis wrote:

What about a Trichord Dino? I use one and it is great...definitely quieter than the Project Tube box too...

I did originallyconsider the Dino, but most of the reviews and opinions seem to indicate it is very good but not outstanding, and that it can be bettered in it's price bracket. It would be nice to get a phono stage where I didn't feel the urge to upgrade; that probably means spending closer to £500. Damn!

The Lehmann Black Cube can be had for under £400 and seems quite configurable; anybody using that?

Cheers

Gary

 

[JANDL100]

A Dino with its standard PSU sounded very 'plasticky' and false to me - but give it a Never Connected PSU and it totally transforms it. Stunning.

 

[gazcarts]

I'm reading some very good reviews about the Black Cube, and at under £400 for the standard version, with plenty of adjustments, and upgradeable to SE standard with the external PSU, it's becoming a favourite.

Anybody own one?

Gary

 

[Draconis]

Ahh yes, I did mean with the NC PSU on the Dino!

I have had a play with the Lehmann Black Cube (Decade I think) and it was excellent, but too much for me at the time... now I am too poor to consider it.

 

[bkelly]

I use the Creek OBH-15 and am very happy with it but have not heard any of the others to compare it with,

 

[dgdgdgdgdg]

Hi Gazcarts

I've recently been using a P10 from Puresound as an upgrade over a Project Phono SE - much much more detail - a big step up in Sound Quality over the Project. Jury is still out as to whether its a keeper long term - still feel I could get better sound (Synergy Thing Perhaps) for equivalent money. Some Interesting thoughts from other wammers, see below:-

Lefty was selling this Heed before Christmas - see his comments about item for sale as well as others he has owned:-

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/view_topic.php?id=48746&forum_id=5&highlight=heed+quasar

Also - I think it was EarlofSodbury who owned a P10 with a Technics SL 1210 - and quickly exchanged - I believe for a Dino - could be mistaken on this one as this is an "as I recall" observation.

Damian

 

[Gromit]

NVA Phono2 - quite possibly the best phonostage I've owned under £1k. Lefty now has one (my old one in fact). It's also upgradable with a 2nd psu.

Other stuff I've had...

Cambridge 640P (2 of them)

Dynavector P75 Mk1 & 2

Puresound P10

Trichord Dino (with HR psu)

Had a lend of an Icon Audio PS1 but it didn't really float my boat.

 

[arturo]

JANDL100 wrote:

A Dino with its standard PSU sounded very 'plasticky' and false to me - but give it a Never Connected PSU and it totally transforms it. Stunning.

Yes indeed, & with the superior power cord & a Mk II Dino you won't do better at the price. Plenty of oppurtunity for tweaking with the 8 dip switches to experiment with.

 

[Spacehopper]

I can't comment on the other stuff mentioned but I'm using a Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 SE and think, for the money, it's a bit of a bargain and is supposed to be even better with the PSU1-24 power supply ( I intend to get one once I have the spare funds).

 

[GrahamB]

Worth checking out the Heed Audio phonostages, I have a Questar MM.

Graham

 

[pmac]

No mention of the Whest 2 yet.

Well under budget (s/h) and dvery definitely worth an audition. It was a massive improvement on my X-Lps v3.

 

[BD Audio]

gthang wrote:

another vote for a Dino + NCPSU, seriously good.

and another.

 

[gazcarts]

Thanks everyone. Some interesting ideas there. Unfortunately, my location prevents me doing any real auditioning, so I want to be sure I buy the right one from the off.

I've heard a few others say that the P10 needs careful matching. The NVA Phono 2 sounds interesting and can be bought on eBay for £490 with a 30 day money back guarantee if not satisfied. Is the NVA solid state or valves?

The Dino with NCPSU is over £700, so a bit too much for me, although I could keep an eye out for a second hand one.

Has anybody compared the Black Cube SE with a valve amp such as Croft RIAA, Pure Sound P10 or EAR 834P?

Regards

Gary

 

[rabski]

JANDL100 wrote:

A Dino with its standard PSU sounded very 'plasticky' and false to me - but give it a Never Connected PSU and it totally transforms it. Stunning.

100% agree. I used a Delphini (father of the Dino) with the NC power supply and it was utterly magical. A very different beast to the standard Dino. Used, I've seen them around the £500 mark and I'd say this was well worth a punt. The Puresound can be superb, but it can also be awful. Incredibly dependent on other components, so a real gamble.

I love the EAR834P, but in standard guise, it's no better than decent. £3-400 worth of capacitors and valves, plus a day with a soldering-iron takes it to a completely different level, but that goes way over the stated budget.

If it was my money, I'd look no firther than a Dino with proper PSU, but they are few and far between. For good reason.

 

[Coda II]

Don't think it's been mentioned yet: the ANT Kora. Have a look at:http://www.soundhifi.com/ant.html

While you are there you may want to have a look at what they have to say about (and produce for) the Technics as well.

Not sure what the current position is on sending them out on a trial basis but it's definitely worth getting in touch and seeing if you can give one a try.

I bought one in preference to an 834P