Help With Upgrade Path

[Jazz Kisaten]

I'm in the US where the LP12 dealers don't have multiple tables set up for comparison.

My early 80s LP12: Lingo 1, 12 month old Cirkus bearing and subchassis, Ittok LVII, Ortofon 2M Black. Do you recommend (a) replacing the Cirkus with a Karousel  and save for an Akurate Radikal 2 years from now; (b) get a Karousel and Lingo 4 now and forget about the Radikal; (c) doing nothing now in order to move up the Radikal purchase by a year and keep the Cirkus for the foreseeable future or; (d) something else?

I mostly listen to acoustic jazz (1950s and 60s) with strong rhythmic foundation.   Thanks for your advice.

 

[Matt Chicago]

I’m in the US too ... agree it’s tough to find a shop with many different a/b options and even dealers are far and few between!

My vote is B. Huge improvement from your current setup and many years of listening pleasure (plus you’re going after the 2 most important pieces in the hierarchy). Holding out years for the Radikal means missing out for too long! Many people report Lingo4 is in the sweet spot of bang for buck in Linn upgrades and it’s a huge jump over Lingo1. When you look to move beyond this you can keep an eye out for an exdem Akurate Radikal that won’t break the bank (vs. new) and just take your time to find one in good condition (over next years with no rush).

You can sell your Cirkus bearing for about $250-$300. You could also consider selling the subchasis for $200+ toward a new subchasis like a Majik or Kore if you want ... would be a good time to do so when having the Karousel fitted.

I also listen to mid 50s-60s jazz, and I’ve seen a few of your posts. Unfortunately, I’ve come to vinyl a bit late in life so would likely be jealous of your collection! Although, fortunately the recent Tone Poet and 80s/Classic reissues sound fantastic and make building a collection of greats much less painless.

 

[mskaye]

I’m in the US too ... agree it’s tough to find a shop with many different a/b options and even dealers are far and few between!

My vote is B. Huge improvement from your current setup and many years of listening pleasure (plus you’re going after the 2 most important pieces in the hierarchy). Holding out years for the Radikal means missing out for too long! Many people report Lingo4 is in the sweet spot of bang for buck in Linn upgrades and it’s a huge jump over Lingo1. When you look to move beyond this you can keep an eye out for an exdem Akurate Radikal that won’t break the bank (vs. new) and just take your time to find one in good condition (over next years with no rush).

You can sell your Cirkus bearing for about $250-$300. You could also consider selling the subchasis for $200+ toward a new subchasis like a Majik or Kore if you want ... would be a good time to do so when having the Karousel fitted.

I also listen to mid 50s-60s jazz, and I’ve seen a few of your posts. Unfortunately, I’ve come to vinyl a bit late in life so would likely be jealous of your collection! Although, fortunately the recent Tone Poet and 80s/Classic reissues sound fantastic and make building a collection of greats much less painless.

I agree w Matt Chicago on option B. It's cost effective leaving you lots of money to buy LPs.  That's the path I took last year and I couldn't be happier with the results of both upgrades.  PS - I listen to a lot of small ensemble jazz, singer songwriter, 70s rock, string quartets...  I'd bring an original LP of Nick Drake's PINK MOON to demo equipment over 99% of the audiophile nonsense I've heard at audio shows.   

 

[akamatsu]

Has your Lingo 1 been rebuilt? If not, you may consider that as an option. I sent my Lingo 1 to @ThomasOK for rebuild with excellent results.

 

[sktn77a]

Lingo 1's are going for about $600 right now (in the US) but the Cirkus kits aren't selling very well unless you drop your price down a lot,  Still, you should get $100-$120 for the bearing and platter and maybe $75-$100 for the subchassis, if you sell that too.  Only you can decide which option you go with in the long haul.  If you don't have a dealer locally that can demo the new kit against your existing LP12, you should expect to get a discount mail order (10%-15%).

 

[Dasher]

I have two Lp12s.

One of them is Majik Sub Chassis, Lingo 1, Cirkus,  Ittok, Ortofon 2M Black, Lejonklou Gaia

The Second is Kore, Radikal (A), Karousel, Ekos 2, Aska (Soundsmith rebuild), Uphorik 

The only recent change to the first TT is a swap from Cirkus Sub Chassis to Majik Sub Chassis. So I have  direct comparison of your current and proposed position.

First thing to say - they are different. Having said that, I like them both - and the first one gets more airplay - primarily because of the room that it is in.

I listen to a whole host of genres but my go to favourite is small ensemble jazz - Blue Note, Verve, ECM and ACT types of stuff. When I'm sitting quiet, doing nothing else, then I use the second TT almost exclusively (again, primarily because of where it is situated). The build of the second TT really lends itself to sitting and taking in the music - especially small ensemble and vocal.

As I said to another on the forum only yesterday, the first TT takes everything that we throw at it in its stride. Am I in a rush to change it? No - and if I did it would be a Karousel and that would be it.

Do I enjoy having the Radikal/Kore/ Ekos experience? Absolutely - but equally I never missed it when I didn't have it.

I would for a Karousel - it really does drop the noise floor and you really can hear the difference on a L1/Ittok (I've tried it).

I would certainly have a Majik Subchassis fitted at the same time. The Majik Subchassis is audibly better than the Cirkus - tighter/clearer/ lower noise - arguably the best bang for buck and a no brainer if fitting a Karousel (plus it gives you a full Cirkus and subchassis to sell on (and circus sub chassis aren't that common a find)).

I fully agree with Akamatsu regarding the L1 - a service and recap really makes an improvement to a 20 year old Lingo. The Ittok also benefits from servicing - but that is a little more difficult from the US as I would go to Johnny at Audio Origami in Scotland - he is first class when it comes to these things. 

I went the Lingo1 to Radikal(A) Ex-dem route - it wasn't that much more expensive for an ex dem Radikal than going for a new Lingo 4 and so I just went the whole way.

So I guess that I'm in the Option A camp (looks like it's just me)!

Hope this helps.

 

[Jazz Kisaten]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  The variety helped counteracted my tendency to get stuck searching for the one  "right" of "best" approach.  In truth, there is no wrong approach as long as I stay within budget. For the curious, I will upgrade to a Karousel/Majik, try to sell my near new Cirkus parts (know anyone who might be interested?), look into recapping the Lingo and start putting pennies away for a Radikal (know anyone looking to upgrade from Akurate to Klimax?)

 

[akamatsu]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  The variety helped counteracted my tendency to get stuck searching for the one  "right" of "best" approach.  In truth, there is no wrong approach as long as I stay within budget. For the curious, I will upgrade to a Karousel/Majik, try to sell my near new Cirkus parts (know anyone who might be interested?), look into recapping the Lingo and start putting pennies away for a Radikal (know anyone looking to upgrade from Akurate to Klimax?)

If you can, stretch the budget a bit and get the Kore. I think it would serve you for a long time, if not permanently. I had Kore and now Keel. Kore is really good, and is an amazing value for the sound quality it brings. If budget doesn't allow, then your path is a prudent one. Just a suggestion.

When I had my Lingo 1 rebuilt, I was without it for about four weeks. Even after such a long interval, I was able to very clearly hear the difference that the rebuild made.

Karousel alone brings with it a whole new record collection. That's the best part of these upgrades, and the benefit of doing the big impact ones (Karousel, Radikal, Kore, etc.) one at a time.

 

[ThomasOK]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences.  The variety helped counteracted my tendency to get stuck searching for the one  "right" of "best" approach.  In truth, there is no wrong approach as long as I stay within budget. For the curious, I will upgrade to a Karousel/Majik, try to sell my near new Cirkus parts (know anyone who might be interested?), look into recapping the Lingo and start putting pennies away for a Radikal (know anyone looking to upgrade from Akurate to Klimax?)

Good choice.  I was going to say A, get the Karousel now and save for the Radikal.  It really is worth the difference over the Lingo 4.  (I own one of each.)  I would echo the idea of upgrading the sub chassis at the same time and also pushing it to a Kore if you can, as akamatsu suggests.  The Kore is a fine piece of gear.  Also if you ever did consider going to a Keel the resale value of the Kore is likely a higher percentage of its cost than the Majik sub chassis.  Either way you will have a major musical upgrade with the Karousel and another one when you can do the Radikal.