How to assess a fair price for a cartridge

[alby]

Hi 

I am in the market for a new cartridge - £300 to £500 for example an Ortofon bronze - ( I have always liked the Ortofon sound)  , and am happy to buy second hand but how do you assess a fair price , I have seen some cartridges with 200 hrs use go for 90% of the new price , were the buyers caught up in a mad frenzy or am I missing something . If following my head rather than my heart I believe that for something new or very cost the price is 80% - 90% of new  , for something used but very good condition the price is 60%- 70% . But is that a fair way to assess a cartridge ?

PLEASE HELP.

Alby

 

[savvypaul]

A secondhand cartridge is worth what someone will pay for it. How do you intend to verify the stated hours of use?

 

[alby]

I assume an element of trustworthiness in forums such as this a bit more sceptical on eBay etc

 

[Lurch]

Back in January I picked up a 40hr ex-dem Hana ML from a dealer (via eBay) for a BIN price of £735 vs new at the time of £995. So for me when I've looked at used carts I work on max 75% rrp upto 50hrs, 60% upto 200hrs and <50% for anything over that. 

Though often with high end carts that's sometimes difficult to achieve due to the sellers initial investment. My latest win was a 600hr Koetsu Rosewood Signature Platinum (£5.8k) for £1501, am well happy with that. 

 

[George 47]

Alby,

It is very difficult in that a cartridge can be easily damaged and if you buy from a person you have no idea if it has been 'bounced' off a turntable mat that damaged it, but it still plays. So be careful or use a dealer where you can have some comeback. I am aware of a case of someone buying a cartridge and getting it damaged and the previous  owner saying it was their fault through poor installation. And guessing the number of hours is a bit of a game.

Even removing the cartridge and examining it with a microscope is not going to tell you much apart from damage and considerable wear. And the suspension adds another unknown.

So having said that the price of a second hand cartridges varies from their bare value, if you get a rebuild or a new stylus, to about 60-70% of the new price. Above that I would get definitive proof of the cartridge working well. 

 

[savvypaul]

I assume an element of trustworthiness in forums such as this a bit more sceptical on eBay etc

Yes, me too. My point, though, is that it's tricky to go about assessing the value of a secondhand cart in a strictly scientific way. 

Is the cart rare? Is there a long waiting list for one? If not, then I (personally speaking) wouldn't pay more than around 40% of the new price, regardless of the number of hours use claimed (unless I absolutely know it's history). If it's a rare / hard to get hold of in the UK / vintage item that I'm determined to have...who knows where I might go to. 

 

[alby]

No it will not be rare , I am only going to look at cartridges that are currently being retailed .

 

[Lurch]

@alby this is a steal if you've got the pennies sat waiting. They're a stunning cart for the money, way better than their rrp suggests.

 

[Nopiano]

No it will not be rare , I am only going to look at cartridges that are currently being retailed .

I’d reduce your percentages by about 20 percentage points, so your 60% for good used would be 40%.  Of all audio items, in my view, cartridges should depreciate the most for the reasons already highlighted above. 

 

[Temaad]

PATIENCE

 

[simon g]

I would have thought spending time finding/negotiating a good deal on a new cartridge would be a better long term bet.

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

I have a good deal of experience at buying SH cartridges as I could never afford a new one (well, not since the introductory year of the AT OC9).

I bought a couple of Deccas  in the days when they were going for £60: one was out of a HiFi mag's classifieds (Answers) and one off eBay. Both were fine.

In more recent times I concentrated on Wammers known to be 'boxswappers' or perfectionists, as they would have a good reason to sell on a perfectly good cartridge, but one they were not happy with. With Wammers there is quite a bit more integrity to be had, especially someone you know or a regular contributor who is not an obvious 't...er'.

If you are part of a Wam 'circle' you could get first hand auditions and be an insider on the cartridge's history.

Recent examples of my purchases  are a Dynavector 17D2 from a Wam 'name' with 'low hours', similarly an Ortofon Cadenza Blue and a Benz Wood SL.

My previous cartridge was a Miyajima Shilabe which I was offered by the lovely and lamentably no longer with us CliveG. On a visit with Speedracer to hear Clive's system, as we were leaving I saw the cart, and Clive explained its history (ex Peter Ratcliffe) and even showed me the invoice for that sale on his computer. Clive has a pipe rack of carts in their headshells for his arm and said he didnt get on with it and so hadnt used it. His alternatives were an IO, a top of the range Zyx and an SPU etc..so that seemed quite likely. Anyway, if you met Clive you just knew this cart was exactly what he said it was.

My latest acquisition was a 'new, but opened' AT Art9 on eBay for £750 (rrp £1300). Crucially it was local (16miles) so I contacted the seller and went along to check it out. I'll spare you the details but the lady's explanation was very credible and she showed me the item in its box. It had strangely gone thro without a bid - presumably because potential buyers thought it was a lie or fishy in some way. Even second time around I was the sole bidder on the auction and got it at the opening price. (I have to give Lurch a shout-out as he texted me the details and brought it to my attention.)

When I picked up the cartridge having won the auction, I discovered the packet containing the nuts and bolts still unopened and the fact its taken a while to run in is more evidence my judgement stood up and that the extra effort I put in had paid off.. (See the Art 9 thread in 2 channel.)

Jack NSM

 

[THOMO]

Just about all cartridges are overpriced nowadays.Prices have increased at well above inflation rate in the last decade.Nagaokas for example have nearly doubled in price in about 7 years.

 

[Temaad]

That would be correct, with the exception of the Denon 103. 

Cheers

 

[gz00]

That would be correct, with the exception of the Denon 103. 

Cheers

Marvellous cartridge which I purchased 2nd hand from Wammer.