I know I really love music but do we also just love messing about ?

[bencat]

While I do appreciate gear and like looking at a some smart things with meters on I also proclaim that what really matters is the music and how it sounds as this the real goal I think i have in my head . I truly thought I believed this but now I am not so sure .

Digital music played from files has brought in for me at least a whole new world of messing about and things to look at . I was always glad to get rid of Vinyl in the early days just to get rid of the faff and set up . Buy a CDP plug it in connect it up and there you go . This is still possible but it is not now how I listen to music most of the time , instead I rip all of my CD,s to an SSD HD and then use Logitech media Server to play that music . Seems simple then someone mentioned and pointed out that using SMPS plugs in equipment add noise to the music . I get one to try out and find out that this is true for me at least . I then go through a whole period were all SMPS are replaced with LPSU some moderately expensive some cheaper used buys . At each replacement the background noise gets quieter and the music becomes more real and more cohesive happy bunny .

Then someone introduces me to reclocking in the first instance with a Mutec MC-3 + USB . The improvement is not hard to hear but for me at least it is just too expensive to consider . Then I get sold a used Audio GD DDC unit which does a similar job but on a less pro basis . The sound improves in similar way to the Mutec probably not quite a s good but still a very nice improvement . Then I find a very cheap (relatively) Mutec and get that and it does all the things I remember .

My main music system now sounds better than i have ever heard it and I should be happy . Then the next level of fiddling and messing is brought to my attention . You can use the Mutec to slave the clock on m Upsampler and my DAC and this will give another improvement . So now I have ordered the additional cables and this will be given a try and see were that leads . At the same time another Mutec user has given me the link and nod to a standalone precision clock that I can feed in to my Mutec and make that work just a little better. Again as this was not very expensive order placed and this will be something for weekend (sir) .

All of the above is additional for a system of music delivery that was supposed to simple and just pug and play . I am sure there are many on here looking at this and wondering what and probably why I am doing this . Now my stock answer is to get better sound but I am starting to look sideways at that answer . I think that yes i do like music but some part of me loves the messing about and the looking in to the corners of things hoping to find something that just raises the performance and outcome just a little more . Tube rolling is probably a similar pursuit , just that one extra type that changes things a little .

So yes I still love music and it is the main reason for all this but I am going to admit that I love the faff and the searching a little bit too .

 

[bigrod]

That’s what a hobby is all about “ messing and trying different stuff “
That’s where a Mancave comes in handy ..
Leave the main system alone and play upstairs to my heart’s content …

 

[griffo104]

As primarily a headphone user I have 4 systems currently setup and I'm always playing around and trying different combinations - so easy to change things around. Hifi is a hobby and one I thoroughly enjoy.

 

[Jules_S]

Sounds to me Andrew that you have simply replaced the faffing about with vinyl with the faffing about of digital. I'm not knocking it, just observing that one of your reasons for parting with analogue was the hassle (I know you have other reasons for rejecting it too).

There's absolutely no reason to be bothered that you enjoy the journey (messing about with kit) as well as the destination (more enjoyment of the music). What would probably be more concerning was if you were just playing with kit for its own sake, without caring about the end result, that would seem more pointless to me.

Have fun with whatever you are doing. You can always call time on it if you get to a point where the cost starts to outweigh the benefits.

 

[Ady]

It's a hobby, you are meant to be endlessly faffing about with it, enjoy

Ady

 

[bencat]

@Jules_S you are right in your comment and in the past I made the argument that digital is simpler . This is me owning up after a long look at what I have been doing the past few years and saying yes there is as much messing about that can done . Please you do not have to do this to get good digital sound . I just feel to get the very best sound then this stuff has to at least be tried to see what is going on . One plus point about digital compared to vinyl is that most of the work in digital is on computer and does not need mechanical skills of which I have very few . Digital skills on the other hand are more in my compass and with each next stage I learn more which is a bonus , though at my age for each new thing I learn two things I already knew skip off the back but that is life .

 

[Jules_S]

Spot-on, Andrew. Hi-Fi as a hobby can be as simple or as complicated as you want (and can afford). It's good that you have the knowledge and skills to investigate what's possible with your chosen platform. I'm certainly taking the simple route with digital, if for no other reason that the thought of all those external PSUs and clocks and all the associated cables sends my OCD into a tailspin! Trying to keep that lot tidy would occupy me for more years than I have left on this planet...

 

[JANDL100]

Box swapping.
It's all about having fun on the journey.
Arriving at a 'destination system' would be no fun at all.

 

[DomT]

HiFi is a bit like food. There is a combination of ingredients to make it to your personal taste. Sometimes an established recipe isn’t quite right and needs modifying. Sometimes a fusion dish is just what’s required. Experimenting to arrive at what is right for you can be fun.

What isn’t fun is regular unhappiness with the music that your system is producing. Being conscious of what you like and don’t like is important. More money doesn’t always bring better results. Fortunately there is a lot of experience on here to help people.

 

[rabski]

I enjoy messing about with electronics and I enjoy music. HiFi is therefore two hobbies combined, which works perfectly.

 

[bencat]

@DomT This is the best part so far I have only gone down one cul de sac and with each new tunnel I go down the music quality is not just good but exceptional . I am very much coming round to a leaning view that digital music at its best is all about the timing of the file which produces a better and more real final result . As with everything there will be a final limit but at this point I have not found it . Hopefully the next step is going to be another improvement . What I have also found is that while spending more does not always get better there is also a point where yes that is better but I am not paying that much to achieve it . Nice to hear but too much for me to realistically buy one .

 

[martinpix]

same here but I mess about with vinyl not digital as much, I enjoy digital but I have to many files that need reseting up with image art that i'm just put of by it. I am forever chasing vinyl Nirvana going round in circles I love the music but have to admit I love tinkering to much.

 

[nomore landings]

Hi Bencat,
you sum up the sentiment felt by many of us. As a student 50 years ago, I worked double shifts to buy my first modest vinyl hifi. Good for a decade, when along comes digital where the initial excitement gave way to hearing irritating shortcomings. After several box swaps, a Meridian was good for 20 years without giving a second thought to upgrading or fiddling. Then along comes streaming which I resisted until four years ago. A very steep learning curve and so many options and temptations. Having swapped between services I have at least settled on Qobuz. The Innuos Pulse has bought an uplift in sq, both Qobuz and Radio Paradise. Yet there is the Pulsar which adds a reclocker. Having only just switched to usb, what could it add? Then members praise switches, fibre optic Ethernet and other tweaks. Where does it all end?
I guess having retired a decade ago and gradually emptied the memory bank once choc full of very high tech and procedural info stored under the professional mantra of "ignorance is no excuse" I guess this hobby has replaced the thirst for technical knowledge, but as I am listening to RP on a very modest second system, the music is what it is all about. Moody Blues on RP sounding better than on that first vinyl 5 decades ago.

 

[Phil Bishop]

Interesting topic but how much of these perceived "improvements" are bias expectation?

I ask because music played on the same modest systems I own never sounds the same from one day to the next. I'll play a record one day and think "wow, that sounds great" and then play it the next day and think "meh". Nothing has changed.....apart from maybe the fridge switching on

I think mood and possibly things like room acoustics due to air temperature changes, etc, probably affect things far more than minor tinkering with electronics.

....and, of course, expectation bias - you change something and expect it to sound better. The next time you play that fabulous sounding record you are disappointed because your expectation has been raised.

Let's turn to another thing I have been thinking about recently, enjoyment. Do I enjoy my music any more these days played on relatively expensive gear and via "perfect" sources (digital) than when I had my first modest Japanese separates system in the 1970's with the record deck often running slow because the belt was worn and cassettes hissing? I don't think I do, in fact I possibly got more enjoyment when things were less perfect. A bit like John Peel's quote about records:

“Somebody was trying to tell me that CDs are better than vinyl because they don’t have any surface noise. I said, ‘Listen, mate, *life* has surface noise”

 

[bencat]

Interesting topic but how much of these perceived "improvements" are bias expectation?

I ask because music played on the same modest systems I own never sounds the same from one day to the next. I'll play a record one day and think "wow, that sounds great" and then play it the next day and think "meh". Nothing has changed.....apart from maybe the fridge switching on

I think mood and possibly things like room acoustics due to air temperature changes, etc, probably affect things far more than minor tinkering with electronics.

....and, of course, expectation bias - you change something and expect it to sound better. The next time you play that fabulous sounding record you are disappointed because your expectation has been raised.

Let's turn to another thing I have been thinking about recently, enjoyment. Do I enjoy my music any more these days played on relatively expensive gear and via "perfect" sources (digital) than when I had my first modest Japanese separates system in the 1970's with the record deck often running slow because the belt was worn and cassettes hissing? I don't think I do, in fact I possibly got more enjoyment when things were less perfect. A bit like John Peel's quote about records:

“Somebody was trying to tell me that CDs are better than vinyl because they don’t have any surface noise. I said, ‘Listen, mate, *life* has surface noise”

And if all it is is bias expectation does it matter ? I always feel that if you hear an improvement and that improvement is still there over a week later and can be taken away and the improvement is lost and putting things back gives the improvement again then who cares why so long as the improvement is there .

Stereo is an illusion and if you can improve that illusion then that is a positive . I am going to install a precision clock and it may well make a difference perhaps even an improvement . This will not be because it is expensive because it is not it will be because I can hear it . I really do not understand why the use of a better clock should make a difference but I have heard to my satisfaction that it does . Now I will find out if an even better clock works even better . I will try find out why and learn in an attempt to understand it but so long as it works and sounds good I am content with that .

 

[StingRay]

Interesting topic but how much of these perceived "improvements" are bias expectation?

I ask because music played on the same modest systems I own never sounds the same from one day to the next. I'll play a record one day and think "wow, that sounds great" and then play it the next day and think "meh". Nothing has changed.....apart from maybe the fridge switching on

I think mood and possibly things like room acoustics due to air temperature changes, etc, probably affect things far more than minor tinkering with electronics.

....and, of course, expectation bias - you change something and expect it to sound better. The next time you play that fabulous sounding record you are disappointed because your expectation has been raised.

Let's turn to another thing I have been thinking about recently, enjoyment. Do I enjoy my music any more these days played on relatively expensive gear and via "perfect" sources (digital) than when I had my first modest Japanese separates system in the 1970's with the record deck often running slow because the belt was worn and cassettes hissing? I don't think I do, in fact I possibly got more enjoyment when things were less perfect. A bit like John Peel's quote about records:

“Somebody was trying to tell me that CDs are better than vinyl because they don’t have any surface noise. I said, ‘Listen, mate, *life* has surface noise”

Good question but some of the tweaks don't sound any better and one sounded worse, so I don't think it is expectation bias.
Thing to do after a while is to remove it and see if it sounds worse.
Once you start then can be difficult to stop.

Yes I enjoyed music more in the 70s than ever since, not into HiFi then but music has changed. Although streaming has increased my interest in music.

 

[Phil Bishop]

And if all it is is bias expectation does it matter ? I always feel that if you hear an improvement and that improvement is still there over a week later and can be taken away and the improvement is lost and putting things back gives the improvement again then who cares why so long as the improvement is there .

Stereo is an illusion and if you can improve that illusion then that is a positive . I am going to install a precision clock and it may well make a difference perhaps even an improvement . This will not be because it is expensive because it is not it will be because I can hear it . I really do not understand why the use of a better clock should make a difference but I have heard to my satisfaction that it does . Now I will find out if an even better clock works even better . I will try find out why and learn in an attempt to understand it but so long as it works and sounds good I am content with that .

Well, I guess it does matter if one ends up spending lots of cash for something that does not actually make any difference but that does not appear to be the case here.

Years ago, I bought an Arcam CD Transport/DAC combo that had a separate clocking system (think it was called sync lock or something like that) that was by all accounts supposed to lead to great improvements. I could tell no difference with it switched in or out. Maybe it's just my ears but I do know when I like the sound of something and it's often on quite modest gear.

 

[garn63]

If I fret too much it means I need to laugh about it, then simplify things usually.
Getting a one stop streamer that does a job well, without the extra Psu's, was a great move. It also made me realise how important that usability/reliability is, with a very nice app to manage my music library.
Was fixed & stubborn to some degree.
If I take a step back I realise that my system sounds lovely, & that I am fortunate to enjoy, & be able to put diff stuff together to shape the sound to my liking. Changing the sound sometimes can be good fun.
Its all about enjoyment Andrew imo. Sometimes we dig our own holes.
* Music first. Stereo a close second.

 

[Beobloke]

It's all about the hi-fi, the meddling and the box-swapping for me.

Music is an irritating side-line required to make the important bits do something.

 

[DomT]

It's all about the hi-fi, the meddling and the box-swapping for me.

Music is an irritating side-line required to make the important bits do something.

It is likely that this was written tongue in cheek but you never know!