Klimax/Akurate System Hub for LP12?

[Do Kim]

I'm confused whether to post on the LP12 forum or on the streamer forum.

Once the device under discussion is clearly a streamer, try posting it on this forum.

I am using Katalyst Exakt Akudorik with LP12. I tried to upgrade LP12 (ex Radikal), but it failed for many reasons.

thinking of upgrading the Streamer as the next best option, but wondering if this will help the LP12 in the future.

As you know, Exakt Akudorik uses Akurate System Hub. 

The System Hub does not include the any DAC, but expect that if I switch to the Klimax System Hub,

the sound quality based on file playback will be greatly improved. But what about LP12?

When using the same Linto phono amplifier, Does Klimax SH have a sound quality advantage over Akurate SH?

I've heard that the Klimax SH's input stages (RCA, XLR) have Rundal Trans, so I'm hoping that will make a difference.

 

[DB1328]

There‘s a big sound sound quality advantage when upgrading to Klimax System Hub.
But if I were you, i would upgrade to Radikal, first. The new Karousel bearing is also a great upgrade. After that, get a Kore or Keel subclasses and change the Linto with an Urika 2. I did all the steps and changed Lingo, Linto, then Akito 2, Benz Ace Sl, Kore and Circus Kit to Radikal (First Akurate then Klimax), Urika 2, Ekos SE/1, Kandid, Keel and then Karousel. I changed my AEDSM with KEDSM, too. It is a wonderful update, but I would go source first and get the Lp12 to another level. 
If you hurry, you can get the Karousel for free when you spend 3000£ or more for a new order till May, 22nd.

There‘s a big price advantage for buying a bundle  incl. Radikal and Urika 2, too.
 

 

[DavidHB]

When using the same Linto phono amplifier, Does Klimax SH have a sound quality advantage over Akurate SH?

My experience, to my continuing surprise, says "yes". I originally had an ADSM. When I upgraded to Exakt, the ADSM was, in effect, functioning as an AEDSM (to all intents and purposes the same thing as your Akurate System Hub). My dealer persuaded me to try a Klimax Exakt DSM (again, virtually the same thing as a Klimax System Hub) in place of the ADSM. Friends who were present with me at this demo agreed that there was a significant improvement in sound quality - not perhaps as great as some step changes I have experienced (as with, for example, the later upgrade of my AEB 10 to Katalyst), but still well worth having. The upgrade was worth doing in my case, because the KEDSM was an ex-demo model and I had the ADSM to trade in.

The improvement was also noticeable with the record deck I was using at the time (a Basik), though that comparison was complicated by the fact that the KEDSM/Klimax System Hub has no built in phono stage. That would not be an issue for you as you have your Linto. The analogue to digital conversion of the input from the phono stage is, I believe, better implemented in the Klimax Hub than in its Akurate counterpart.

All of that said, ASH to KSH is potentially a very expensive upgrade and, even in these difficult times, you should really plan to get a demonstration before committing to the purchase.

But if I were you, i would upgrade to Radikal, first. The new Karousel bearing is also a great upgrade. After that, get a Kore or Keel subclasses and change the Linto with an Urika 2

I'd certainly consider LP12 upgrades, as DB1328 suggests. But much will depend on the extent to which you use streaming as compared with your LP12. Upgrading the System Hub will of course benefit both.

David

 

[Do Kim]

My experience, to my continuing surprise, says "yes"

Thanks you DB, David

A few days ago I rented a Klimax Exakt DSM (ex-demo 2013 var) from a local dealer. Wow! As soon as I connected, I noticed that the FLAC sound quality improved from the Akurate level to the Klimax level. (I used Klimax DS/3 for 1 year) However, since there is no separate phono amplifier, LP12 was connected to Klimax through Digital out (Spidf) of the Akurate System hub.

A problem occurred here, and the Akurate System Hub's Digital Out (LP12 signal) was only recognized by Klimax when set to 24-96. RAW, 24-192 settings were not recognized by Klimax at all. 

I tried to contact Linn, but it was impossible to get support because it was closed due to Covid-19. :-(

Theoretically, RAW / 24-192 should also be recognizable, but I'm still not sure what's wrong. I have tried all the settings I can try in Konfig, but it is not recognized except 24-96.

The LP12's sound quality (which is connected to Klimax's Digital in with 24-96) unfortunately, seems to be inferior in sound quality to the Akurate System Hub alone. 

The sound character itself is similar to that of Klimax, but in terms of dynamics and resolution, it is inferior to that of the Akurate System hub alone. Well, maybe it's because of the poor quality of the Spidf digital cable (entry level..  Just 20￡). Or it could be simply because the signal path is getting longer (it goes through ADC twice).

If I buy a Klimax Exakt DSM from a local dealer as it is, I am a bit worried because the phono amplifier will be difficult to purchase for the time being.

 

[Tendaberry]

If I buy a Klimax Exakt DSM from a local dealer as it is, I am a bit worried because the phono amplifier will be difficult to purchase for the time being.

The obvious solution is called Lejonklou Entity, an excellent MC phono stage, that rivals the Urika soundwise, but at a lower cost. The KEDSM has a much better A/D converter than the Akurate System Hub, too.

 

[DavidHB]

The obvious solution is called Lejonklou Entity, an excellent MC phono stage, that rivals the Urika soundwise. The KEDSM has a much better A/D converter than the Akurate System Hub, too.

Tendaberry is quite correct. I am not sure what the precise problem is, but your method of connection was definitely not intended (and may not even have been thought of) by the Linn designers. I also agree that, with a Majik LP12 and an MC cartridge, the Entity represents the most cost-effective way to connect the record deck to the KEDSM. It's not cheap, but we are in Klimax territory here.

That said, the Entity is cheaper and, I believe, quite a lot better than the Uphorik. It even gives the Urika II a run for its money (as I can confirm, having heard that particular comparison).The other point is that the £1,600 or equivalent you would spend on the Entity will be relatively future proof; it will not be out of place with an Akurate or even near Klimax level LP12.

Going back to the KEDSM, if the model you are evaluating has (like mine) the 2013 board, this is the original KEDSM. There is also the KEDSM/1, which is, as far as I know, is identical apart from the name to the current Klimax System Hub. Indeed, the only difference between the two KEDSMs is a change of internal component, which did not affect either the audio performance or functionality of the product but did require a different software variant, and hence a new model designation. All of which is a rather long-winded way of saying that, even with the 2013 main board, you get the best streaming renderer and analogue to digital converter that Linn have so far produced. And, by Klimax standards, at a "bargain" price too  .

David

 

[BB1]

I tried to contact Linn, but it was impossible to get support because it was closed due to Covid-19. :-(

Theoretically, RAW / 24-192 should also be recognizable, but I'm still not sure what's wrong. I have tried all the settings I can try in Konfig, but it is not recognized except 24-96.

I know for sure that the MDSM doesn’t support 24-192 on its digital TOSLINK and S/PDIF inputs and is limited to 24-96. I’d guess that other DSMs are affected by this limitation as well. LinnDocs tells nothing about the supported sample rates for any Majik, Akurate or Klimax DSM, but the Selekt DSM documentation explicitly states that 24-192 is supported…

 

[BB1]

I've heard that the Klimax SH's input stages (RCA, XLR) have Rundal Trans, so I'm hoping that will make a difference.

The name of the company manufacturing the transformers is "Lundahl".

The transformers will break the ground loop between the DSM and the LP12 (or any other other analogue source, which outputs are referenced to the same ground as the DSM’s). If the transformer is of high quality (the one Linn uses is), breaking the ground loop is of benefit for SQ. And as Tendabarry already said, the KEDSM’s A/D conversion is better than the ASH’s.

I’d like to emphasize what David wrote:

But much will depend on the extent to which you use streaming as compared with your LP12.

If you mainly use streaming, upgrading to a KEDSM/KSH would be the way to go. And if you mainly use your LP12, I’d vote for upgrading it first. Making the "right" decision becomes most difficult, if you’re using both sources to the same extent.

 

[DavidHB]

Making the "right" decision becomes most difficult, if you’re using both sources to the same extent.

Not so much difficult as expensive ...  

David

 

[Piercro]

I have an Akudorik system with an akurate lp12.

I had always the doubt of how Klimax Exakt Dsm (now Klimax System Hub) could improve. I was quite sure that there could be an improvement in the analog domain so as a benefit for LP12. This because of a better AD conversion. But a lot of doubts on Digital domain.

I decided to buy a Linto to understand the improvement on LP12 keeping my Akurate Exakt DSM. The difference is there an for sure is relevant compared to the investment I did ( 500 eur second had).

Now I could be open to test a Klimax Exakt DSM...but very big investment for me...especially  baying a new one.

I was lucky to find a second hand one and even more lucky to sell immediately my Akurate Exakt DSM. As imagined there is a big difference on the Analog domain and the investment could be worthwhile.

But incredibly for me is absolutely audible on the Digital Domain! I really don’t know why. I’m an engineer an trained to tech considerations, and the Katalyst DACs are in the Akudorik...but the difference is huge.

Just to size the difference is almost relevant as I upgraded to Katalyst tha Akudoriks... incredible!

I do not know if it can help, but now I decided to upgrade my Linto + Lingo 4 to Urika II and Akurate Radikal taking advantage of Karousel promotion. The trade in costs a bit above the minimum needed for the offer but I think that the improvement would be important.

I will keep you updated if interested... the timeframe would be not short because of covid...