New system required: Budget to possibly £2.5k

[d_a_n1979]

I'm already a member of other Hifi related forums and have been on here for a while but thought I'd post this to see what other views/advice is out there Please... Bear with me

I have a fairly eclectic taste in music ranging from Bonzo Dog, Jethro Tull to Sting and Nat King Cole to Massive Attack, Delphic, Vampire Weekend, Fischerspooner, Layo & Bushwacka and so forth but I DO NOT listen to chart/pop music etc...

So far I have demo'd: NAD C326BEE along side the NAD C545BEE CDP and Monitor Audio RX2 and B&W 685 speakers. A very good system combo over all but I think better can be had and the missus doesnt like speaker stands!

I also demo'd the Naim Nait 5i amp and CD5i CDP and the Arcam FMJ A18 amp with the CD17 CDP along with B&W CM7 & B&W 683 speakers. Both systems really lacked bass clout and depth and we're all together too muddy. I've demo'd both the speakers before and loved them but I think with the above seperates they just werent right.

Tomorrow I'd demoing the NAD C355BEE amp with the Rega Apollo CDP and the NAD C545BEE CDP with the B&W 684's, B&W 683's, Monitor Audio RX6's and 8's and the GS20's.

I'm also very interested in a full Rega system (i.e. the Brio or Mira amp with the Rega Apollo CDP and RS5 speakers). I've been told that this system would be very good as it has good overall synergy and a decent soundstage. I have also been advised to look at the Neat Motive 2 speakers as well.

Overall I require a few things out of my system. Decent bass (I like it to be deep and powerful but not muddy or flabby; it has ben taut and punchy). Midrange and treble need to have good synergy but not too bright or clinical (as I found with the Naim gear). The midrange has to be smooth and detailed as I like vocals such as Nat King Cole and Sting/Dido et all but it has to be good enough so I melt when I listen to it

I'm based in Lancashire so I'm prepared to travel around the region and Manchester, Cheshire and Merseyside as well.

Are there other seperates I should be demoing or other dealers I should be speaking to? I'm going to Sight & Sound in Preston tomorrow and hopefully next week I'll be visiting Audio Counsel in Cheadle.

Thanks

 

[The Strat]

Hi,

I'm not surprised the Naim duo didn't work with the BWs. The guys on here will come up with loads of ideas for you. I would try the Rega Apollo CDP, with the Nait 5 amp and Neat Motives or Dyn 110s - I'd be interested to see what you thought of the combination.

Regards,

Lindsay

 

[Plato]

Regarding other HiFi dealers, also look in on Doug Brady's in Warrington they really are very accommodating - I speak from experience.

Practical HiFi also in Warrington have a good reputation on this forum.

Good luck

P

 

[d_a_n1979]

The Strat wrote:

Hi,I'm not surprised the Naim duo didn't work with the BWs. The guys on here will come up with loads of ideas for you. I would try the Rega Apollo CDP, with the Nait 5 amp and Neat Motives or Dyn 110s - I'd be interested to see what you thought of the combination.

Regards,

Lindsay

TBH I was suprised by the Naim gear; everyone raves about it but I found it gutless and far too bright, even with the B&W CM7 speakers!

My parent-in-laws have the CM7's with their Cyrus 6vs2 amp, 6SE CDP and 2 PSX-R's and the CM7's kick out some welly and sound superb!

I really do like the look of the Neat Motive 2's; unfortunately though I havent found anywhere in the NW that deal with Dynaudio's. Audio-T (who bought Practical Hifi) have the DM 2/6's in but that's it!

 

[T.white]

If you're finding what you've tried so far lacking in bass, perhaps PMC speakersmight be worth a punt. They aren't to everyone's taste, butbass is one thingthey willdo. A good pair of used GB1's could be had for no more than perhaps £650, which gives you plenty to lash out on a great amp and some kindofplayer for the front end. Even their little brother theDB1's have oodles of bass for their size and would be worth a listen if you can get it. For your budget, there is a LOT of choice. It depends whats most important to you in terms of sound and room placement I guess.

 

[The Strat]

d_a_n1979 wrote:

The Strat wrote:

Hi,I'm not surprised the Naim duo didn't work with the BWs. The guys on here will come up with loads of ideas for you. I would try the Rega Apollo CDP, with the Nait 5 amp and Neat Motives or Dyn 110s - I'd be interested to see what you thought of the combination.

Regards,

Lindsay

TBH I was suprised by the Naim gear; everyone raves about it but I found it gutless and far too bright, even with the B&W CM7 speakers!

My parent-in-laws have the CM7's with their Cyrus 6vs2 amp, 6SE CDP and 2 PSX-R's and the CM7's kick out some welly and sound superb!

I really do like the look of the Neat Motive 2's; unfortunately though I havent found anywhere in the NW that deal with Dynaudio's. Audio-T (who bought Practical Hifi) have the DM 2/6's in but that's it!

Audio-T should be able to get a pair of 110s in from another branch - I have always found them very accommodating.

 

[dudywoxer]

I'll probably get moaned at for suggesting Rega, but I would start with a Apollo CD player, then depending how you split your budget, a Brio or Mira, with RS5's or Neat Motive 1 or 2. If you want a bit more meat on the bones, then scan around for some Spendor S53's used, or A5's new.

Rega is a warmer, fuller sound than Naim or Cyrus to my ears anyway, Rega or Neat speakers will latch onto the speed and timing part of the system, the spens will fill out the sound a bit more.

 

[mikedefacto]

Don't bother with sight&sound they are a nothing but a shower of halfpenny dicks. Goto audio-t (formerly practical hifi) instead.

 

[Frank Abela]

I've played with both the CM7 and 683. the CM7 seems to really need a powerful amplifier. The Arcam A28 seemed to have real grip on it and controlled it better than a Naim SuperNait. I suspect it's something to do with the impedance curve of the CM7s - many B&Ws are harder to drive than one would normally wish and this stresses the Naim amp incidentally. I must say that with the Arcam CD17/A28 I got one of the best sounds I ever had from those speakers. the A28 is way more powerful than you'd think, surprisingly so.

The 683s are easier to drive but more difficult to control that bass of theirs. Fabulous midrange (I'm a sucker for a decent midrange unit) and in many ways I prefer them to CM7s, in part because of the easier impedance match.

In your budget, here's a couple of combinations I'd suggest:

* Naim CD5i/Nait5i/Focal 704V or Rega RS5

* Rega Saturn/Mira/RS5s (ensure the Saturn has been on for a few hours before the demo otherwise it just sounds asleep)

 

[d_a_n1979]

mikedefacto wrote:

Don't bother with sight&sound they are a nothing but a shower of halfpenny dicks. Goto audio-t (formerly practical hifi) instead.

Hi Mike

TBH they've been really good with me; really helpfull and have bent over backwards letting me demo various kit etc...

I demo'd the Naim & B&W gear at Audio T last week and they were really helpful as well.

I'll get these other demo's out of the way over the next week so so and will go from there. I dont want to blast in and spend £2k/£2.5k on a system and then regret it!

 

[d_a_n1979]

Frank Abela wrote:

I've played with both the CM7 and 683. the CM7 seems to really need a powerful amplifier. The Arcam A28 seemed to have real grip on it and controlled it better than a Naim SuperNait. I suspect it's something to do with the impedance curve of the CM7s - many B&Ws are harder to drive than one would normally wish and this stresses the Naim amp incidentally. I must say that with the Arcam CD17/A28 I got one of the best sounds I ever had from those speakers. the A28 is way more powerful than you'd think, surprisingly so.The 683s are easier to drive but more difficult to control that bass of theirs. Fabulous midrange (I'm a sucker for a decent midrange unit) and in many ways I prefer them to CM7s, in part because of the easier impedance match.

In your budget, here's a couple of combinations I'd suggest:

* Naim CD5i/Nait5i/Focal 704V or Rega RS5

* Rega Saturn/Mira/RS5s (ensure the Saturn has been on for a few hours before the demo otherwise it just sounds asleep)

Thanks for the info Frank

I know the CM7's are hard to drive but the Arcam A18 sounded bloody awful and the Naim gear was just plain wrong! I am amazed though at how well my parent-in-laws Cyrus system drives them! Very bloody well indeed....

I do like the look of the Rega system but I am fearful that it wont have the bass depth and drive I hanker for (but not that much in teh way of using a sub etc...). Do you really think that the Rega Saturn is worth the price compared to the Apollo?

Unfortunately there's no where near to me that has Focal speakers.

 

[Jezzer]

The Saturn and Apollo are both damn fine cd players. Whether the Saturn is worth the extra over the Apollo depends on the rest of your system. Though I personally think the Saturn is quite a bit better than the Apollo - especially in terms of bass control and depth.

If you didn't like the Naim kit then the Arcam gear is quite the opposite. The Arcam sound is more 'refined' and laid-back in its presentation.

I had a Rega Mira amp for a short spell. It was quite average at best - the sound lacked sparkle and energy (life).

 

[d_a_n1979]

Jezzer wrote:

The Saturn and Apollo are both damn fine cd players. Whether the Saturn is worth the extra over the Apollo depends on the rest of your system. Though I personally think the Saturn is quite a bit better than the Apollo - especially in terms of bass control and depth.If you didn't like the Naim kit then the Arcam gear is quite the opposite. The Arcam sound is more 'refined' and laid-back in its presentation.

I had a Rega Mira amp for a short spell. It was quite average at best - the sound lacked sparkle and energy (life).

Thing is I love Arcam; well up until recently.

I've had their amps from the Alpha 6 through to the 10 and 10P; had the DiVA A70 and A90 but felt both were a little gutless. I've recently got rid of an AVR600 with the B&W XT8's/XT4/XTC and PV1 sub as the system was too big TBH and my missus was fed ou of the wires and cleaning it all :zip:

The latest Arcam amps are a let down IMO BUT I havent heard the A38 yet as cant find anywhere that has it in!

I have been told re Rega that the Brio has more life in it than the Mira so it'll be good to hear them both; I think the Rega Saturn CDP is out of the question due to it's price!

I have been looking at the PMC GB1i's though and they look lovely and have great reviews so may try and demo them but it depends with what amp and CDP.

 

[Folkman]

If you have up to £2.5k , then i would say a Saturn is a must.

For a verygood Rega system try...

Saturn with Regas new mains cable.

Couple.

Brio3.

SC42.

RS3

all for £2300.

Michael.

 

[Lee Henley]

Tried B&W CM7 with a Nait XS, absolutly awefull, tried the 804's as well, awefull, gave up after that with B&W, match the XS up with the right speakers and it's a good starting point IMHO

 

[browellm]

Just get a valve amp, everyone does in the end.*

*This may not actually be true

 

[yoda900]

Choose the speakers that sound best in your room not the shop.

From there next is the amp that is best capable of synergy with the speakers. Does not have to be the most powerful or expensive

Any money left over on the CDP.

Cables. Hitachi and cheapo copper speaker 2.5mm single with with jumpers of the same cable if needed.

Do you have to buy new?

If you want a particular speaker in a particular finish to please SWMBO then that is understandable but you can get much more bang for your bucks with 2nd hand amps and CDPs.

Given your location various Audio T or for Rega Acoustica in Chester have been doing the stuff for years together with Naim and B&W.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Thanks for further info folks

Re Yodas post; I think you're wriong re CDP. IMO it needs to be in the same class as the amp. Having been through many hifi set-ups in the past I've always found that if you scrimp on the CDP it'll bite you in the arse sooner or later.

I dont have to buy new but I'd like to as it'll be a first but also it's handy with warrenty etc... My main issue is the inability to demo with a majority of 2nd hand gear! That's a big no-no for me.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Folkman wrote:

If you have up to £2.5k , then i would say a Saturn is a must.For a verygood Rega system try...

Saturn with Regas new mains cable.

Couple.

Brio3.

SC42.

RS3

all for £2300.

Michael.

Thanks for the system advice; sounds very good but I think better cables could be had for less £££ and IMO I dont think the RS3's would suit my room as it's fairly big and I dont think they'll hit the bass depth and tautness that I'm after. The RS5's would be minimum IMO

I will go and demo the Rega systems as soon as I can in the next week or so because I'm getting fed up now TBH; too much demoing is taking me away from what I love re hifi and getting me all worked up and disecting it all too much!

In the next 2 weeks I hope to demo all the Rega gear, the PMC GB1's and hopefully some Focal and Dynaudio speakers. I think that if I can find some decent and good looking stands; I may go for standmounters...

The Dynaudio DM 2/7's and 2/8's look to be very good indeed!