NORD 2 ICE1200 AS2

[uzzy]

Just acquired a Nord ICEAS1200AS2 for a price that just could not be turned up .. waiting for XLR to RCA converters to arrive to be able to plug it in and try it .. Now this is much against my normal character (and advice to others) in that I would not recommend buying before a home demo (but hopefully the price I got it for will easily be attained if I decide to pass it on) 

If it stays it will be the first piece of important replacement in 20 years (excluding CD player change due to laser failures an inability to repair) 

So guys (and gals) do you think this will oust my Hafler DH200 (or 220, I alternate them) which has served my ears so well over many years? 

When I have it set up and running I will try and serve up a review of the Nord in comparison to my beloved Haflers ... 

  

 

[Jezzer]

Do let us know! I had a Hafler DH220 years ago and it was great. 

 

[Rockchild]

Just acquired a Nord ICEAS1200AS2 for a price that just could not be turned up .. waiting for XLR to RCA converters to arrive to be able to plug it in and try it .. Now this is much against my normal character (and advice to others) in that I would not recommend buying before a home demo (but hopefully the price I got it for will easily be attained if I decide to pass it on) 

If it stays it will be the first piece of important replacement in 20 years (excluding CD player change due to laser failures an inability to repair) 

So guys (and gals) do you think this will oust my Hafler DH200 (or 220, I alternate them) which has served my ears so well over many years? 

When I have it set up and running I will try and serve up a review of the Nord in comparison to my beloved Haflers ... 
  

Welcome to the 21st century

 

[Nopiano]

Wow, nice one.  I bought my Nord from a Wammer, and was aware that Colin isn’t far away in Cheltenham, should I need him.  I’ve loved it, and it’s not going anywhere - until I can afford active ATCs anyway.  

I don’t know how the ICE models differ from the Hypex subjectively. I can’t seem to find any specs on the Nord site for yours. Looking forward to hearing how you get on. 

 

[uzzy]

Wow, nice one.  I bought my Nord from a Wammer, and was aware that Colin isn’t far away in Cheltenham, should I need him.  I’ve loved it, and it’s not going anywhere - until I can afford active ATCs anyway.  

I don’t know how the ICE models differ from the Hypex subjectively. I can’t seem to find any specs on the Nord site for yours. Looking forward to hearing how you get on. 

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-two-ice-power-1200as2-power-am  the difference to yours is about half the money for this one new .. and as to sound well I will stick a review of mine compared to the Hafler when I have had a chance for a good audition ... 

 

[DomT]

Just acquired a Nord ICEAS1200AS2 for a price that just could not be turned up .. waiting for XLR to RCA converters to arrive to be able to plug it in and try it .. Now this is much against my normal character (and advice to others) in that I would not recommend buying before a home demo (but hopefully the price I got it for will easily be attained if I decide to pass it on) 

If it stays it will be the first piece of important replacement in 20 years (excluding CD player change due to laser failures an inability to repair) 

So guys (and gals) do you think this will oust my Hafler DH200 (or 220, I alternate them) which has served my ears so well over many years? 

When I have it set up and running I will try and serve up a review of the Nord in comparison to my beloved Haflers ... 
  

I am sure that you will appreciate that after so many years of Hafler the Nord will sound different and may sound 'wrong' to you.  The same happened to me after 10 years of Marantz PM11S2 use.  When something is 'right' it is 'right' and listening to something else can be a challenge.  The best thing that works for me is to put the new amp in the system and don't try to analyse it and just use it for a week or two to acclimatise.  Then maybe start doing some a/b comparisions.  Best of luck.

 

[hifinutt]

I am no technician but I read an awful lot about hypex failure in quite a few forums over a few years . I don't seem to get this with icepower.  I have had icepower amps of many sorts over the last 15 years and never had a problem. 

Certainly love my asx50 .that one the op has looks good.  At some point I want to try the ps audio m700 which are the same icepower as the op and the new ps audio m1200 are the same with valves 

 

[simon g]

I am no technician but I read an awful lot about hypex failure in quite a few forums over a few years . I don't seem to get this with icepower.  I have had icepower amps of many sorts over the last 15 years and never had a problem. 

Certainly love my asx50 .that one the op has looks good.  At some point I want to try the ps audio m700 which are the same icepower as the op and the new ps audio m1200 are the same with valves 

Indeed. Very many reports of Hypex SMPS PS failures after a few years service.

 

[antonio66]

I truly don't know which amp my money is on, will be very interested in your findings.

 

[Nopiano]

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-two-ice-power-1200as2-power-am  the difference to yours is about half the money for this one new .. and as to sound well I will stick a review of mine compared to the Hafler when I have had a chance for a good audition ... 

Ah, thanks, I didn’t scroll down far enough for the specs.   I went to the individual amp page, and there’s nothing.  I’m glad the gear isn’t as clunky as Nord’s website!  

Mine was £800 secondhand, and it’s an earlier one because it’s a 3/4 width case.  It runs fairly warm, unlike my Primare, as they use the case as a heat sink.  When powered up it ticks over at about 40 watts.  I reckon it sounds better after about 20 minutes. 

 

[DomT]

The good news is that you have a very good preamp and I have a feeling that you will hear even more of it with the new amp.  This could be a revelation but could go either way.

 

[hifinutt]

Indeed. Very many reports of Hypex SMPS PS failures after a few years service.

A very interesting thread on pfm called the trouble with nord about these failures 

A few years ago the guys at bel canto changed from icepower to hypex for their power amps . A good many of these ref 600 end up at repairers. I was only reading a testimonial  on  a well known BC experts web site  yesterday and its not long before you see one in for repair 

I would still buy them but only if I know I can get support 

From what I read nord and bc and others do give very good support .which is very reassuring.  I have no doubt the UK distributor of hypex would be very rapid in sorting out issues . I recently had one of his demo hypex amps and service was excellent and communication fast 

All hi fi has weaknesses and as long as it gets support that's great 

 

[Alex 54]

A very interesting thread on pfm called the trouble with nord about these failures 

A few years ago the guys at bel canto changed from icepower to hypex for their power amps . A good many of these ref 600 end up at repairers. I was only reading a testimonial  on  a well known BC experts web site  yesterday and its not long before you see one in for repair 

I would still buy them but only if I know I can get support 

From what I read nord and bc and others do give very good support .which is very reassuring.  I have no doubt the UK distributor of hypex would be very rapid in sorting out issues . I recently had one of his demo hypex amps and service was excellent and communication fast 

All hi fi has weaknesses and as long as it gets support that's great 

The switching PSU fails to start because the start-up capacitor was losing capacitance, a relatively simple job to replace. I believe Hypex have changed the capacitor in later versions to improve reliability.

 

[hifinutt]

Thanks Alex, that's good to know . I presume you have read that thread 

 

[Alex 54]

Thanks Alex, that's good to know . I presume you have read that thread 

It happened to one channel on my Nord after about 4 years, changed the capacitors in both PSU's and it's still going strong. Looked at the thread but not thoroughly, is there something specific relation to the failure?

 

[uzzy]

Ok .. as to the Hypex failures I spoke with a guy who used to make and sell amps using Hypex units ... his comment was they had a problem with power supplies due to changing to a cheaper source and similarly the capacitor failure mentioned above is probably due to using cheap Chinese ones to save a few bob .. but that is conjecture.

As to the Nord - well guys my XLR converters arrived today and tonight me and the missus sat down for an hour or so of listening to our favourite tracks.

First off what is noticeable is there is a "monitor" like quality (first impression, we will see if changes over the weeks ahead) and you can pick an instrument and follow it through the track clearly getting into the mix.  The bass is all there but initial impressions is it dos not have the "Kick" that I am used to from the Hafler.  Initial impressions are it is not as dynamic (feels like a hint of compression) and it feels "slow" compared to the Hafler.  

The Hafler, being heavily biased to class A, has a magical mid range quality .. everything seems there with the Nord but compared to the Hafler something is missing but I cannot put my finger on it .. as my wife said "it is different and I am not sure if I like it or not - it seems to vary track to track". 

It is effortless and "very nice" and it could just be I am so used to the sound I have.  it is a question of letting my ears see if they will tune in and adjust .. I resisted the urge to plug the Hafler back in after half an hour to compare what we had listened to .. our decision to leave the Nord in situ for a few weeks and see how we get on and then plug the Hafler back in for a comparison.

If I was still playing in the band we could have definitely used it for the PA as it is effortless and very powerful .. which reminds me I have a Quad 405 we used to use for foldback in the garage needing a recap if anyone wants to make me an offer on it (and come and pick it up) 

Watch this space - will come back in a few weeks with my conclusions

 

 

[JANDL100]

I used to be a big class D fan, but I seem to have kind of gone off the general breed. 

I've had a wide range from RRPs of £11 to £4k. They all sound different, from overly smooth to over excitable in the treble. ICE amps have been particularly troublesome in the latter regard. 

I've only had one Hypex based amp, and that soon started to go wrong, intermittently fading out in one channel. A well experienced engineer has tried to sort it, but no joy so far. Shame, as it sounded very promising when it did work, possibly my most natural class D amp so far. 

But, varying widely though they do in sonic presentation, after extended listening they have all seemed a bit, well, boring. They can sound enticingly open and detailed and dynamic and tonally neutral initially, but after a while they just start losing my attention in a way that seems uniquely class D. Most odd!

They tick so many of the hifi boxes, but musically I'm no longer convinced. 

I've not tried many of the more recent designs, such as Nord, and I dare say I'll give one a go sometime soon. 

 

[hifinutt]

It happened to one channel on my Nord after about 4 years, changed the capacitors in both PSU's and it's still going strong. Looked at the thread but not thoroughly, is there something specific relation to the failure?

The psu units as you mentioned.  Be good if Stefan maybe could clarify if this matter has been resolved ??

 

[hifinutt]

I used to be a big class D fan, but I seem to have kind of gone off the general breed. 

I've had a wide range from RRPs of £11 to £4k. They all sound different, from overly smooth to over excitable in the treble. ICE amps have been particularly troublesome in the latter regard. 

I've only had one Hypex based amp, and that soon started to go wrong, intermittently fading out in one channel. A well experienced engineer has tried to sort it, but no joy so far. Shame, as it sounded very promising when it did work, possibly my most natural class D amp so far. 

But, varying widely though they do in sonic presentation, after extended listening they have all seemed a bit, well, boring. They can sound enticingly open and detailed and dynamic and tonally neutral initially, but after a while they just start losing my attention in a way that seems uniquely class D. Most odd!

They tick so many of the hifi boxes, but musically I'm no longer convinced. 

I've not tried many of the more recent designs, such as Nord, and I dare say I'll give one a go sometime soon. 

Interesting Jerry, and you have had so many speakers to try them with 

I have put several class d with the impulse horns but they are initially very detailed and live but it all gets a but much . Tried asx 125 amps twice .

However with the tannoys the class d is magic .dynamic , live , warm , non fatiguing,  it may have something to do with the dc3/pre amp but it certainly does not sound boring