Ok, I’m going to give one a go

[Rockchild]

I’ve just tried this speaker matching page on REL’s site:

https://rel.net/blog/speaker/super-hl5-plus/?intended_use=music&room_size=small

It recommends a REL S/812 even for a small room, which cost 2800 pounds each. Hmm, maybe I’m wrong about T5x’s being a good match, but REL’s recommendation does seem like overkill.

Your input is still appreciated

 

[MartinC]

Subwoofer that is

After much deliberation, I have decided to give one a go. Do I need one? I don’t really know but let’s get some advice. It’s the one area in audio I haven’t ventured in to so any tips are most welcome.

Checking back, I wonder to what extent this question arose purely from curiosity or at least a slight dissatisfaction with your system's current bass performance? I'm asking because given the bass extension of your speakers you're bound to have a fair degree of overlap with a sub (assuming you're not going to use additional processing), and so likely get more bass in frequency range you already have as well as increased bass extension (assuming you get a capable enough sub).

 

[Rockchild]

Checking back, I wonder to what extent this question arose purely from curiosity or at least a slight dissatisfaction with your system's current bass performance? I'm asking because given the bass extension of your speakers you're bound to have a fair degree of overlap with a sub (assuming you're not going to use additional processing), and so likely get more bass in frequency range you already have as well as increased bass extension (assuming you get a capable enough sub).

Curiosity Martin as much as experimentation and investigation to extend the bass

 

[Iceman 16]

@Rockchild Jon, I know these are over £400 but the video might help.

 

[MartinC]

As the driver size question came up I'll say that personally I think bigger is probably generally better...

In terms of personal experience I've owned three subs; two with 12" drivers and one with a 15" driver. Here's a comparison I posted on another forum of a 12" ported sub (BK Monolith) and a 15" sealed sub (Power Sound Audio S1510), which covers music first then movies:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/po...ry-of-mojogoes.1953630/page-168#post-27814740

My main speakers are 2-way with 6.5" bass drivers. I high-pass filter these so that frequencies below 110 Hz go to my 15" sealed sub instead, because it sounds better. There's more to this than driver size but it's not like the big driver is an obvious problem or I wouldn't do this!

From a theoretical perspective there are good reasons to use large drivers for low bass. If there is a single, small driver trying to generate low bass it has to move in and out a lot to generate any meaningful sound level, and bass extension is also limited. Generally such high driver excursion is associated with higher distortion, although this does depend on the driver. The way to reduce driver movement for the same sound level is to increase the total driver area, which can either be done by having multiple smaller drivers or a single larger driver. For context, a single 15" driver has ballpark the same radiating area as five 6.5" drivers. Notably large drivers are also specifically designed for the lowest frequencies.

The higher the desired sound levels and the greater the desired bass extension the stronger the argument for larger drivers becomes, but conversely subs with smaller drivers are of course a totally viable option for those with more modest expectations. Both absolutely work for people .

 

[Esee]

I recently added one of these for a bit of bottom end fill and it's been one of the best subs I've owned. An M&K being the other.

https://www.av.com/Speakers/SVS-SB1000-Subwoofer-Gloss-Black/4CSV

 

[Psilonaught]

Your room, from the photo, appears to allow you to have pretty large speakers and with them out into the room.

Have you considered panels? Quad or Apogee or Magnepan?

 

[Rockchild]

Your room, from the photo, appears to allow you to have pretty large speakers and with them out into the room.

Have you considered panels? Quad or Apogee or Magnepan?

It’s a wide angle photo done some panels years ago. Brings a whole new can of worms, amplifier etc

 

[Andrei]

I’m not sure your budget is sufficient to get a worthwhile sub. You might be able to get some kind of home theatre sub with a 10 inch driver for that, but I’m not convinced it would be likely to be good enough to pair with the Harbeths.

I think this is right. The 'problem' is that your speakers are so good. The sub has to be of similar quality to your speakers. Otherwise you are swapping one issue (little bass) for another (muddy bass).

 

[Idlewithnodrive]

I'm not even sure that the cost equivalence is really a thing.

My speakers were 8 times more expensive than my sub (REL T5i) but they work exceptionally well together.

 

[rocky raccoon]

For that price you could get one from Wilmslow Audio, build it and get good results.
I have one I built years ago. Never listen without it.
The old gaffer built one to go with his ATC active 100's and if it can improve the sound of those, you can appreciate the quality on offer.

 

[Audio Al]

" Ok, I’m going to give one a go "

One ? stereo is 2

 

[Rockchild]

Old Thread. I’ve tried the subs by borrowing 2 Rel’s and although there was a difference, it wasn’t as effective as the amp change. Far more rewarding.
Also, suspended floors and plasterboard walls are much to do with the issues of not going that route. Gaia’s have made a big difference too.

 

[MartinC]

" Ok, I’m going to give one a go "

One ? stereo is 2

Not really relevantly so for the frequency range covered by a subwoofer .

(The principle reasons for considering multiple subs don't relate to music being stereo.)

 

[diceman]

Not really relevantly so for the frequency range covered by a subwoofer .

(The principle reasons for considering multiple subs don't relate to music being stereo.)

Agree, for most domestic listening rooms the room is too small for the human ear to detect any directionality so 1 is fine. The reason why 2 is better is that you are likely to drive any room modes if the subs are in 2 different locations in a room and thereby provide you with a more even bass response.

 

[DiggyGun]

I tried a sub in my office system, but with a suspended wooden floor, I just couldn’t get it right.

Put it back on eBay and got a lot more than I paid for it.

Glad I tried it though. One less itch to scratch now.

DG…

 

[arturo]

You may need an exit strategy, from the sub rabbit hole. I entered it 20 years ago with a 1st gen Rel Storm. Many iterations later, this week installed a rel S 212/sx. That’s what a sub can do to you. Bon courage.

 

[Strider]

Fom my experience I'd go for a sealed box, I'm not a fan of a ported sub for 2.1/stereo, ported boxes are for HC. I'd also recommend using hi-level input better S/R and ruling out 3rd party DSP possibly introducing signal delay.

You've probably heard that two subs are better than a single sub (I agree) but before jumping in at the deep end you could just buy a cheaper REL (my choice) or MJ Acoustics to get a flavour of how a sub sounds with your present kit.

Nice looking kit but its the slippers that really made me go all squishy.