old audionote caps

oceanobsession

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Hi folks , just wondered how good these old audionote caps  are , i like the tone but could they be more open , there fitted to my dac sig 2.1x , considering replacing them for

maybe the  jupiter Copper Foil Paper & Wax Capacitors , any thoughts , phil.

20210620_154624.jpg

 

Jazid

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Very good caps, you may prefer the change but I wouldn't bet on it. If they're on the output then possibly a larger value might help right at the bottom of the frequency range - say 1 or 2uF, if they're used as coupling caps then don't change the value (and obviously not the voltage rating).

 

rabski

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I would imagine, based on experience with similar circuits, that the Jupiter would not be any improvement, and would quite possibly be a step in the wrong direction. If you want 'more open', then the entire circuit plays a major part and there is no guarantee changing the caps would give you what you are looking for.

About the only thing that could possibly change it in the right direction may be V-Cap CuTF or other teflons, but .47uF at the right voltage will damage your wallet to the tune of around £470, and there's no guarantee it would be any better. Get into that sort of territory, and you'd be far better off by moving up the Audio Note range. You'll also crucify the resale value of yours if you swap out Audio Note capacitors.

 
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oceanobsession

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philip
I would imagine, based on experience with similar circuits, that the Jupiter would not be any improvement, and would quite possibly be a step in the wrong direction. If you want 'more open', then the entire circuit plays a major part and there is no guarantee changing the caps would give you what you are looking for.

About the only thing that could possibly change it in the right direction may be V-Cap CuTF or other teflons, but .47uF at the right voltage will damage your wallet to the tune of around £470, and there's no guarantee it would be any better. Get into that sort of territory, and you'd be far better off by moving up the Audio Note range. You'll also crucify the resale value of yours if you swap out Audio Note capacitors.
Very good caps, you may prefer the change but I wouldn't bet on it. If they're on the output then possibly a larger value might help right at the bottom of the frequency range - say 1 or 2uF, if they're used as coupling caps then don't change the value (and obviously not the voltage rating).
thanks for your thoughts , phil.

 

oceanobsession

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philip
I would imagine, based on experience with similar circuits, that the Jupiter would not be any improvement, and would quite possibly be a step in the wrong direction. If you want 'more open', then the entire circuit plays a major part and there is no guarantee changing the caps would give you what you are looking for.

About the only thing that could possibly change it in the right direction may be V-Cap CuTF or other teflons, but .47uF at the right voltage will damage your wallet to the tune of around £470, and there's no guarantee it would be any better. Get into that sort of territory, and you'd be far better off by moving up the Audio Note range. You'll also crucify the resale value of yours if you swap out Audio Note capacitors.
 Cheers for your thoughts , resale value has stopped me playing with the caps  , adding a small cap like duelund to whats already there could be an option , also could be removed without any probs , cheers phil. 

 

rabski

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I would avoid bothering with bypass caps here. The 0.47uF are coupling in the signal path (output). The jury is out regarding the use of bypass in power supplies, but a great many people would argue (and I tend to agree) that the downsides outweight the possible upsides in signal path positions (potential time and phase distortions).

Really depends on how deeply you want to go with it. The DAC2.1 I think uses the same circuit as the DAC2 for the output stage: a pair of 6922s in cathode follower. This is not a bad design by any stretch, but further up the range moves to an anode follower design with output transformers. Thoeretically, if you don't need the gain and can live with a (significantly) higher output impedance, you could change the existing circuit and use the earlier AN/Kondo version with paralleled 5687s, but that's really a bridge too far unless you could pick up a complete circuit board. Again, you'll masasacre the resale value. I would say that I'd do that if it was mine, but I built one that similar so I wouldn't do it anyway...

 

oceanobsession

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I would avoid bothering with bypass caps here. The 0.47uF are coupling in the signal path (output). The jury is out regarding the use of bypass in power supplies, but a great many people would argue (and I tend to agree) that the downsides outweight the possible upsides in signal path positions (potential time and phase distortions).

Really depends on how deeply you want to go with it. The DAC2.1 I think uses the same circuit as the DAC2 for the output stage: a pair of 6922s in cathode follower. This is not a bad design by any stretch, but further up the range moves to an anode follower design with output transformers. Thoeretically, if you don't need the gain and can live with a (significantly) higher output impedance, you could change the existing circuit and use the earlier AN/Kondo version with paralleled 5687s, but that's really a bridge too far unless you could pick up a complete circuit board. Again, you'll masasacre the resale value. I would say that I'd do that if it was mine, but I built one that similar so I wouldn't do it anyway...
Thanks very much for your thoughts , mine actually uses 2x 12au7 and 1x6x5 rectifier , less gain than the 6922 but more choice of valves , tungsol or rca blackplates  plus clear tops for best sound , ill probably live with it for now , still a great sounding musical dac , cheers again phil. 

 

rabski

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I would (live with it). They are indeed extremely lovely sounding things IMO, and modifications always have the potential to change that in the wrong way...

 
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pmcuk

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Rabski mentioned teflon caps, and that's what I use. FT-2 teflon Russian caps are 50mm x 18mm body size and the tabs stick out another 12mm either side, though these can be bent in a bit. I don't think they fit, but it does look like there is some height there to stack 3 or 4 of 0.1uF vertically in parallel. That would be true of other caps. You could try DC Link caps like Kemet from RS but I'm not sure that would be an improvement. They would fit. I love teflon caps and wouldn't use anything else, but they are big - no avoiding that!

 

rabski

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The FT-2 caps are seriously decent. However, they are (as above) seriously large as well. I used them in my spare phono stage for a while but that needed four of them and I ended up putting it in a larger case, which was still a bit of a squeeze. Interestingly in view of the topic, I actually changed them for Audio Note, as these gave a slightly 'bigger' sound.

It's all tinkering at the margins though, and relatively very small changes. If someone says 'night and day' in relation to swapping capacitors, then either the original ones were broken or there is the requirement to justify an unjustifiable expenditure.

In about five decades of messing around with electronics on and off, I can only remember one time there was a night and day effect for a capacitor. That was when, as a wet behind the ears youth, I put a screwdriver in the wrong place when messing about with some EHT stuff. 'The wrong place' was across the terminals of a big electrolytic smoothing capacitor on a very high voltage line and the end result was definitely 'night and day', as it all went very dark and very quiet. Dark, because I'd blown a chain of fuses, including the incoming street mains, and quiet, because I went deaf for a few days. That taught me a few lessons. One of which is that the mess caused by an exploding capacitor is something best avoided. The second of which was that when playing around with anything over a few millivolts, if there is enough current then things can go very bad, very fast.

 

pmcuk

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An exploding electrolytic capacitor is quite an event, quite a bang, and something you don't ever want to experience more than once!!

 

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