One box Solution

[Paulq]

It's Friday and I haven't spotted a 'Which xxx...' post for at least an hour so I thought you may indulge me.

I am thinking about reducing boxes and looking at an all-in-one solution, and would welcome experiences of that I can start with demoing. Must haves are:

Streamer/Amp with Tidal, Qobuz and Internet Radio
High-quality and well-implemented DAC
MM Phono stage (may compromise on this if needed but to begin with it's a must)
Control app must be at least stable.

Budget up to £3k and am happy to buy second hand. Speakers are Quad S2's.

Happy Friday all.

 

[ssfas]

Look out for a Devialet 140 or 220, use uPnP, Roon or get a cheap streamer from iFi. I was a 250 user for 7 years, they are extremely good and used prices are now attractive.

 

[MartinC]

A true all-in-one these days would be a pair of streaming active loudspeakers. Would this option be of interest or do you have speakers you're happy with and want to keep using?

 

[DomT]

I tried to do the same a couple of years ago for example Naim’s all in one series. I listened to the top of the range model at £4k and had two main observations. 1. In direct comparison with the bottom of the range Naim amp and streamer in the same system at the dealer the budget models sounded better on every level. 2. Naim digitise the MM input to stream around the house. They claim no difference to their own phonostages. I didn’t get to hear one but in comparison to my Audion Premier phonostage the Naim sounded compressed and restricted and flat. Is that what a standard Naim MM stage sounds like? I did a home demo and my existing separates were far ahead of the Naim.

I also tried the Nad M10 and some others and ended up buying a Marantz PM7000N. I only kept it for two months. The amp when paired with P3ESRs lacked punch. And the built-in streamer sounded piercing and unnatural when compared to an Auralic Aries Mini through the analaogue input.

Also did a home demo of a Devialet and everything sounded unnatural (this was six years ago).

I ended up staying with separates as the downgrade in quality was just too great. Maybe if you didn’t need an MM input it might be an easier task? Maybe a compact streamer/DAC and a separate amp with MM input would give you decent sound in a compact enough form?

 

[Paulq]

A true all-in-one these days would be a pair of streaming active loudspeakers. Would this option be of interest or do you have speakers you're happy with and want to keep using?

Thanks for the suggestion but not really. I have had them in the past and whilst excellent I'd probably want to go the whole hog and would only consider the ATC's. They'd be massively overblown in my room to be honest but maybe one day

 

[Brown Bottle]

Cambridge Evo 150 is well reviewed but is Class D. The Yamaha RN2000 has just come out and looks a nice piece of kit.

Cheers BB

 

[jobseeker]

I think the MM input requirement will constrain the choices, especially if you don’t want it digitised.

Audiolab 7000a or it’s relatives?

 

[Paulq]

I tried to do the same a couple of years ago for example Naim’s all in one series. I listened to the top of the range model at £4k and had two main observations. 1. In direct comparison with the bottom of the range Naim amp and streamer in the same system at the dealer the budget models sounded better on every level. 2. Naim digitise the MM input to stream around the house. They claim no difference to their own phonostages. I didn’t get to hear one but in comparison to my Audion Premier phonostage the Naim sounded compressed and restricted and flat. Is that what a standard Naim MM stage sounds like? I did a home demo and my existing separates were far ahead of the Naim.

I also tried the Nad M10 and some others and ended up buying a Marantz PM7000N. I only kept it for two months. The amp when paired with P3ESRs lacked punch. And the built-in streamer sounded piercing and unnatural when compared to an Auralic Aries Mini through the analaogue input.

Also did a home demo of a Devialet and everything sounded unnatural (this was six years ago).

I ended up staying with separates as the downgrade in quality was just too great. Maybe if you didn’t need an MM input it might be an easier task? Maybe a compact streamer/DAC and a separate amp with MM input would give you decent sound in a compact enough form?

That's interesting and thanks for sharing your experiences - exactly the kind of input that's useful. Whilst I realise your comments were a wider opinion than just the Naim stuff they are not something I'd want to explore to be honest - I have listened to many of them and they are just not my cup of tea.

I used to be a Linn owner, for many years and whilst I was always happy with their sound, their (IMO) massively overpriced products and 'Exakt' stuff just put me right off them. It was in danger of becoming more about the system than music, and that's in no way intended to disrespect/criticise the many good folks on here who happily invest in Linn stuff. That said, their new Selekt and Majik offerings look nice and could possibly be an option as I'd have no intention of succumbing to their marketing of constant upgrades that I see no value in. Again though, they seem overpriced to me.

Another one I am considering but have zero experience with would be the Moon Neo Ace. The reviews are great but a quick trawl through previous posts on here before posting this suggested that their control app is a bit unstable. That's a shame as the unit itself looks really well-engineered and has everything I want.

That said, I am sorely tempted to pre-order the new Yamaha R-N200A. I just need to take a big deep breath about the price of that one too - £3k is a lot.

Finally, to answer your question, yes I could live without the MM feature and use an external stage. It's not ideal as it is another box but if that's the compromise over the right streamer then I'd be happy to concede it as long as the other must-haves were there.

 

[AndyCC72]

A used Lyngdorf 3400 would be slightly above budget but it's superb amp.

 

[jobseeker]

There’s the Arcam SA30 also.

 

[DomT]

That's interesting and thanks for sharing your experiences - exactly the kind of input that's useful. Whilst I realise your comments were a wider opinion than just the Naim stuff they are not something I'd want to explore to be honest - I have listened to many of them and they are just not my cup of tea.

I used to be a Linn owner, for many years and whilst I was always happy with their sound, their (IMO) massively overpriced products and 'Exakt' stuff just put me right off them. It was in danger of becoming more about the system than music, and that's in no way intended to disrespect/criticise the many good folks on here who happily invest in Linn stuff. That said, their new Selekt and Majik offerings look nice and could possibly be an option as I'd have no intention of succumbing to their marketing of constant upgrades that I see no value in. Again though, they seem overpriced to me.

Another one I am considering but have zero experience with would be the Moon Neo Ace. The reviews are great but a quick trawl through previous posts on here before posting this suggested that their control app is a bit unstable. That's a shame as the unit itself looks really well-engineered and has everything I want.

That said, I am sorely tempted to pre-order the new Yamaha R-N200A. I just need to take a big deep breath about the price of that one too - £3k is a lot.

Finally, to answer your question, yes I could live without the MM feature and use an external stage. It's not ideal as it is another box but if that's the compromise over the right streamer then I'd be happy to concede it as long as the other must-haves were there.

I had forgotten about the new Yamaha RN2000A. That does look like a great product but I have never heard one. After giving up valves I am being lured back but if not then this Yamahas amp would be top of my list and it's great that it has HDMI included. Of course listening is critical. I often found that my tastes don't necessarily align with those who rave about some of these all in one products. I find that they typically require a resetting of expectations.

 

[Jules_S]

Cambridge Evo 150 is well reviewed but is Class D. The Yamaha RN2000 has just come out and looks a nice piece of kit.

Cheers BB

Why is that an issue? I thought we'd got over this class-war

P.S. - OP - I was also going to suggest Lyngdorf - not everyone's cup of tea but I heard one of their amps at Bristol this year and liked it. Compared to a lot of the "bang, crash, wallop" of many other rooms it was a breath of fresh air

Edit: couldn't remember which model it was so had to look it up - it was the TDAI3400 so over budget - my apologies. Plus the phono module is extra. The 1120 model is considerably inside your budget however, and includes an MM input. I've not heard it so might not suit, but worth consideration

 

[jobseeker]

Whilst not strictly ‘one box’, a pre-owned Mytek Brooklyn Bridge plus a Brooklyn Amp (or Amp+) fits the bill and takes up the space of a single component. Class D or not, they are a superb combo. Mine are in a cupboard right now, but it took a Cary Audio DMS-650 and Luxman 507Z to displace them.

 

[Pedro2]

That's interesting and thanks for sharing your experiences - exactly the kind of input that's useful. Whilst I realise your comments were a wider opinion than just the Naim stuff they are not something I'd want to explore to be honest - I have listened to many of them and they are just not my cup of tea.

I used to be a Linn owner, for many years and whilst I was always happy with their sound, their (IMO) massively overpriced products and 'Exakt' stuff just put me right off them. It was in danger of becoming more about the system than music, and that's in no way intended to disrespect/criticise the many good folks on here who happily invest in Linn stuff. That said, their new Selekt and Majik offerings look nice and could possibly be an option as I'd have no intention of succumbing to their marketing of constant upgrades that I see no value in. Again though, they seem overpriced to me.

Another one I am considering but have zero experience with would be the Moon Neo Ace. The reviews are great but a quick trawl through previous posts on here before posting this suggested that their control app is a bit unstable. That's a shame as the unit itself looks really well-engineered and has everything I want.

That said, I am sorely tempted to pre-order the new Yamaha R-N200A. I just need to take a big deep breath about the price of that one too - £3k is a lot.

Finally, to answer your question, yes I could live without the MM feature and use an external stage. It's not ideal as it is another box but if that's the compromise over the right streamer then I'd be happy to concede it as long as the other must-haves were there.

Hi Paul - similar dilemma to yourself (as you know). Tried moving away from the Linn Akurate but couldn’t manage it at the time. I’m dreading it packing up, though. As some others have already spotted, the phono stage + an HDMI cut the available options right down. The Yamaha could be fantastic and I believe that NAD have a new top of the range streamer/pre coming soon (Autumn) - it might tick nearly all of your boxes (minus power amp), including streaming, phono and HDMI as well as preamp.
It could pose serious competition to both Linn and Naim (hope so).

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m66-bluos-streaming-dac-preamplifier/

 

[Paulq]

Hi Paul - similar dilemma to yourself (as you know). Tried moving away from the Linn Akurate but couldn’t manage it at the time. I’m dreading it packing up, though. As some others have already spotted, the phono stage + an HDMI cut the available options right down. The Yamaha could be fantastic and I believe that NAD have a new top of the range streamer/pre coming soon (Autumn) - it might tick nearly all of your boxes (minus power amp), including streaming, phono and HDMI as well as preamp.
It could pose serious competition to both Linn and Naim (hope so).

https://nadelectronics.com/product/m66-bluos-streaming-dac-preamplifier/

Hi Pedro

Thanks and yes I recall our paths have been pretty similar, so I completely get your dilemma.

I actually hadn't seen the NAD and the specs look fantastic plus the fact that it uses BluOS is another bonus. A quick Google looks like it will be priced new at around the £4.5k mark which is a pretty hefty outlay. It does have DIRAC but then again the Yamaha has their own version of correction software so pretty equal all told.

Love the form factor of the NAD though the VU meters will probably swing it that way for me if I choose to go down that route

 

[MartinC]

Thanks for the suggestion but not really. I have had them in the past and whilst excellent I'd probably want to go the whole hog and would only consider the ATC's. They'd be massively overblown in my room to be honest but maybe one day

I suspect you were just thinking of conventional active speakers there rather than the streaming active loudspeaker option I referred to, given I don't believe ATC make any of the latter. Presumably you're not interested but to be clear I was referring to something like the Kef LS50 or 60 wireless models, where the streamer and DAC are built into the speakers as well as the power amps, such that they form the entire system. You literally just need something like a mobile phone to act as the remote control.

Not suggesting these are a universal answer but if truly wanting to minimise box-count this is where's it's at now.

 

[Alister M]

I looked at doing this late last year. I recommend a visit to your local Richer Sounds (who I have always found to be most helpful with no sales crap) for a demo. I compared the Cambridge Evo150, Naim Atom, Audiolab, Matantz and Roksan. They all sound very different and it will depend on your tastes which is best. I was prepared to accept a decrease in sound quality for convenience. The Evo won hands down. The Roksan was the best of the rest with the Naim sounding harsh after 20 mins and the others just bright and bland. But that’s my ears not yours. A demo is the only way forward!

 

[DomT]

Hi Pedro

Thanks and yes I recall our paths have been pretty similar, so I completely get your dilemma.

I actually hadn't seen the NAD and the specs look fantastic plus the fact that it uses BluOS is another bonus. A quick Google looks like it will be priced new at around the £4.5k mark which is a pretty hefty outlay. It does have DIRAC but then again the Yamaha has their own version of correction software so pretty equal all told.

Love the form factor of the NAD though the VU meters will probably swing it that way for me if I choose to go down that route

The Yamaha also has VU meters!

 

[Paulq]

The Yamaha also has VU meters!

Sorry yes, that's what I was referring to.

 

[simon g]

The best sounding, to me, all in one is the Gold Note IS 1000 Deluxe. Ticks all tne OPs requirements, plus it really is a great perfomer. Should be available used for around budget.

There was a concern above about the Moon Mind app. In the past, it was a bit hit & miss, but it now seems very stable and responsive. I use Roon with my 390d, but have tried out the app and it is much improved. It also provides app control of the device, which can be useful from time to time.

The Moon Neo ACE should certainly be explored, especially at tne price they now go for, often with warranty from a dealer.