Revel loudspeakers

[Nopiano]

I was slightly taken aback to discover there are apparently no other users of Revel loudspeakers on the Wam.  There have been in the past, as a few sales have been posted.  But nobody has begun an owners’ thread, so here it is.  

The company is part of the massive Harman group, now ultimately owned by Samsung.  https://www.revelspeakers.com/about/revel.html
My pair are from the modest Concerta2 range, the two-way M16.   For comparison, they are a bit taller than a KEF LS50 (but with curved cabinets rather like ATC’s ‘Entry series’ range) which is probably the best rival on price and performance in the UK.  

Mine arrived earlier this week, formerly occupying the dem room at Grahams Hifi in Islington.  More pictures and impressions to come.  

 

[Nopiano]

Revel Concerta2 M16 reviews

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/revel-concerta2-m16-loudspeaker

https://www.******************.com/forum/index.php?threads/revel-m16-speaker-review.11884/

https://www.avforums.com/reviews/revel-concerta-2-m16-standmount-speaker-review.15924

https://hifipig.com/revel-concerta2-m16/

https://www.whathifi.com/revel/concerta2-m16/review

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/revel-concerta2-m16-speaker-system-review

 

[newlash09]

I was slightly taken aback to discover there are apparently no other users of Revel loudspeakers on the Wam.  There have been in past, as a few sales have been posted.  But nobody has begun an owners’ thread, so here it is.  

The company is part of the massive Harman group, now ultimately owned by Samsung.  https://www.revelspeakers.com/about/revel.html
My pair are from the modest Concerta2 range, the two-way M16.   For comparison, they are a bit taller than a KEF LS50 (but with curved cabinets rather like ATC’s ‘Entry series’ range) which is probably the best rival on price and performance in the UK.  

Mine arrived earlier this week, formerly occupying the dem room at Grahams Hifi in Islington.  More pictures and impressions to come.  

Hearty congratulations sir

They are one revered brand. Would be waiting for your listening impressions in due time. Especially how they compare to the ATC when it comes to mid range. Of course they can't complete with floor standers in the bass dept, which can be expected. 

 

[Metatron]

I heard the M106, which I thought to be excellent VFM. Probably a bit too clear/neutral for some people's tastes, but definitely weren't bright or toppy.  I couldn't really fault them at the price and soundstaging was exceptional. I would definitely put them on a shortlist if buying speakers around £1k.

Not sure about the differences between M16, M106, M105 and so on. There seem to be a fair few variations over time.

 

[CnoEvil]

From the HiFi Pig review - it would appear important to pay attention to de-coupling.

 

[Nopiano]

Not sure about the differences between M16, M106, M105 and so on. There seem to be a fair few variations over time.

I’m still learning about the range, but iirc the M105 and 106 are the 5” and 6.5” woofer models from the range above.  They have swankier cabinets and a better tweeter I think.  My M16 are the 6.5” woofer model from the lower Concerta2 range, where they use a smaller woofer only in the AV models that complete the range.

 

[Nopiano]

From the HiFi Pig review - it would appear important to pay attention to de-coupling.

You’ve preempted one of my first observations!  

They have a prodigious bass output for the size, in part at least I suspect a deliberate voicing to create a ‘bigger’ sound*.  Nobody else mentioned it in a review but the Hifi Pig guy is bang on in my judgement.  Had I placed my stands where I did for the LS50s I might never have noticed either I suspect.  However, I began with the rear of the cabinets 30cm from my front wall as one review of the Revel suggested.  They’re now 45cm away, and I’ll try further into the room in a day or so.  Currently attached with just four pea sized blobs of white Blutak, but those Soundcare Superspikes might be ideal.  The base of the speakers are pre-tapped for mounting to Revel’s stand - about which there’s precious little info. 

The wide-angle phone picture slightly exaggerates the apparent width of the front baffle...



* the bass lift around 100Hz is nicely shown in the ASR review.

 

[Nopiano]

Of course they can't complete with floor standers in the bass dept, which can be expected. 

Indeed!  Naturally they aren’t so effortless, but more noticeable to me is the ‘thrum’ of a typical ported design, that’s absent from the sealed-box ATCs.  Curiously, and contrary to what I’d originally expected, the Revels and ATCs have identical woofer diameters at 6.5” or 165mm.  I suspect the magnet system on the ATC is substantially beefier, however, especially given they’re 300watt handling versus the Revel’s 120watts.

 

[CnoEvil]

I use these Valhalla VT Speaker Pads between the stands and the speakers: http://valhalla-technology.dk/en/3-speaker-feet

 

[Nopiano]

I use these Valhalla VT Speaker Pads between the stands and the speakers: http://valhalla-technology.dk/en/3-speaker-feet

Thanks very much, I’d forgotten that.  I’ve actually got some ‘cellular foam’ rectangles left over from the packaging of several sets of curtain rods we bought when moving. I’ve used them mainly to keep signal and mains wires apart, and to put under lightweight electrical items, like the modem/router.  They’ll be worth a try I think.  And if not the Valhalla at €30 or €40 a set of 8 are a snip compared with c £100 for Superspikes.  That reminded me too that my LS50s had little rubber squares fitted underneath - are they standard?

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks very much, I’d forgotten that.  I’ve actually got some ‘cellular foam’ rectangles left over from the packaging of several sets of curtain rods we bought when moving. I’ve used them mainly to keep signal and mains wires apart, and to put under lightweight electrical items, like the modem/router.  They’ll be worth a try I think.  And if not the Valhalla at €30 or €40 a set of 8 are a snip compared with c £100 for Superspikes.  That reminded me too that my LS50s had little rubber squares fitted underneath - are they standard?

Never noticed.

The VT pads go by speaker weight.

I also Blu-Tac the bottom of the Stand, to the Granite - adds stability and a small degree of isolation.

Are your stands high enough to bring tweeter to ear level? The LS50 are designed to be heard Off Axis - and use Point Source - so a shorter stand is preferable.

 

[daveyu]

Had the Revel M105s great for the price, a little coloured I thought

Revel Stands are recommended as they screw onto the speakers

 

[Nopiano]

Had the Revel M105s great for the price, a little coloured I thought

Revel Stands are recommended as they screw onto the speakers

Thanks for that.  Did they screw directly to the speakers base, or was there any interface/isolation included?  

Do you recall the thread size?  The info I’ve found suggests 1/4”.  
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265M16STND/Revel-M16-Stand.html?tp=1386

One customer review of the stands says the screws were too long. Not good!  Did you have any issues?

 

[Nopiano]

Are your stands high enough to bring tweeter to ear level?

Not quite, as they come to about 22.5” whereas the standard tall stands are 24” as you know.   The Revel ones that are meant to be designed for the job are just over 25” per the link immediately above. 

Mine are now a composite, made up as follows, placed on a solid concrete floor with thick underlay and 80/20 wool carpet, from bottom to top:-

• Sonus faber Stones - a marble mix (reminds me a bit of Corian)
  
• A membrane of rubber mesh as used for lining cutlery drawers or car door pockets to stop things sliding around.  This gives a slightly lossy interface and prevents any rattles
  
• Argos granite worktop savers - incredibly exactly the same dimensions as the Stones
  
• Precision Geek 16mm speaker pads, to hold the spikes
  
• The original Celestion branded Cliff Stone Foundation stands (from the late 1980s and my SL600s). Spikes slightly higher at the front to project better into the room
  
• White blutak
  
• Speakers.
  

I think the Superspikes would add the extra inch or more, but I was trying to do this on a minimal budget.  I’ll try some cellular foam pads I recycled from some curtain pole packaging first. 

 

[CnoEvil]

Not quite, as they come to about 22.5” whereas the standard tall stands are 24” as you know.   The Revel ones that are meant to be designed for the job are just over 25” per the link immediately above. 

Mine are now a composite, made up as follows, placed on a solid concrete floor with thick underlay and 80/20 wool carpet, from bottom to top:-

• Sonus faber Stones - a marble mix (reminds me a bit of Corian)
  
• A membrane of rubber mesh as used for lining cutlery drawers or car door pockets to stop things sliding around.  This gives a slightly lossy interface and prevents any rattles
  
• Argos granite worktop savers - incredibly exactly the same dimensions as the Stones
  
• Precision Geek 16mm speaker pads, to hold the spikes
  
• The original Celestion branded Cliff Stone Foundation stands (from the late 1980s and my SL600s). Spikes slightly higher at the front to project better into the room
  
• White blutak
  
• Speakers.
  

I think the Superspikes would add the extra inch or more, but I was trying to do this on a minimal budget.  I’ll try some cellular foam pads I recycled from some curtain pole packaging first. 

Close attention to detail - I like it and am not surprised.

I take it that the Stands are filled - if so, how much and with what?

I use Granite Worktop Savers as needed to adjust for height - I bought a batch of them when they were £7 each at Argos.

 

[Nopiano]

Yes, the Foundations were filled with Cliff’s secret mix of sand, lead shot etc., I vaguely recall.  He was CJSF on the What Hifi forum.  Post #10 here gives some insights.  https://forums.whathifi.com/threads/rubbish-in-rubbish-out.106432/#post-1122630

 

[daveyu]

Thanks for that.  Did they screw directly to the speakers base, or was there any interface/isolation included?  

Do you recall the thread size?  The info I’ve found suggests 1/4”.  
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265M16STND/Revel-M16-Stand.html?tp=1386

One customer review of the stands says the screws were too long. Not good!  Did you have any issues?

no issues

yes they screw directly to speakers

don't remember thread size screws come with stands

 

[CnoEvil]

So, compared to the LS50s, they are Larger, Lighter, Easier to drive and should go Deeper, with their bigger Woofer.

What the LS50 do so well (as you know) and the Metas do better, is combine amazing detail, with naturalness (with a class leading Soundstage and Imaging). They have impressive scale for their size - but so do the Revels. What I like, is that they are as comfortable playing Classical Music, as they are Electronic, Jazz or Rock.

I will be most intrigued by your feedback and comparison with the Kefs - it's a shame you don't have both for a proper comparison.

 

[Nopiano]

So, compared to the LS50s, they are Larger, Lighter, Easier to drive and should go Deeper, with their bigger Woofer.

Definitely taller, a shade wider, and fractionally less deep than the LS50.  Heavier than than the original by a few ounces, but the Meta model is heavier.  The Revel crossover set at 2.1kHz is lower than typical, and intriguingly KEF dropped theirs from 2.2 to 2.1 with the Meta. Both use 25mm aluminium tweeters, with waveguides of different design. 

I suspect the larger woofer in the Revel is more to permit a dB or so more sensitivity rather than absolute extension, with the manufacturers quoting a -6dB roll off point of 50Hz for Revel and 47Hz for the KEF.   Of course these data are notoriously difficult to compare between makers. 

Both are rear ported through curvaceous tubes, and they have several other similarities.  I think both companies are fairly heavily influenced by lab testing and research, but with listening still featuring in final design.  Both products are made in China.  

Pending further experiments on decoupling and positioning, I have found that using Linn’s Sound Optimisation completely eliminates the slight tubbiness in the bass that I immediately noticed - like the Hifi Pig reviewer. Obviously, that’s not available to many folks and I’d rather get the positioning nearer ideal to begin with.  Onwards...!