Shuffling the decks Part 2: Systemdek IIX900, Planar 2, P3/RP3, RB250 x2

[TheFlash]

Advice please re arms and carts. @Speedracer @Non-Smoking Man: are you receiving?

Wammers may recall I bought myself a lovely Systemdek IIX900 (mint.boxed, new Ortofon 520 cart) just before Christmas. It has the original Moth RB250 arm and plastic stub. Not sure if this link still works: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-1200-mk2-/223420762012?nma=true&si=gZRQz%2BASL%2Bsd9aOSyOcDRZlrj88%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



I've just bought another TT on pfm, mainly for the tecnoweight (!) but also because, well, I've got a soft spot for the SL1200/1210 and brief ownership would be fun. It's a Technics SL1200 Mk2 with Rega RB250 arm,Shure M97xe cart and Tecnoweight but also comes with original Technics arm. £250+some redundant IEM's was hard to resist. The lid is badly scratched and top surface of base is not in good shape but it's fully functional. I collect it around 10th March. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-1200-mk2-/223420762012?nma=true&si=gZRQz%2BASL%2Bsd9aOSyOcDRZlrj88%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



I will listen to it of course but then sell it on unless it blows the Systemdek away (don't think so!). I will reinstall the original Technics arm and either strip and refurb the base, buy one of those metal covers for it, or just sell it as a complete deck in need of cosmetic TLC, depending on energy levels... I'll separately sell one of the RB250 arms.

Question is which bits to keep to make the most of my Systemdek?

Arm: I have the original and minty Moth RB250, the Rega RB250 and the Technics arm. I'm tempted to keep the Moth so it is as original as possible: are there any sonic/engineering differences between the Moth and Rega versions which would tilt you one way or t'other? Obviously the keeper will get the Tecnoweight!

Cart: I know the Ortofon 520 is low hours and know nothing of the Shure M97xe's history, so keeping the 520 is the safe bet. I'll obviously compare them but wondered if wammers had their preferences here.

I'll put the kettle on and wait for your replies

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Nigel, as far as I know the Moth is a rebadged Rega 250. There is the merest suspicion that Rega test bearing quality post production and the very very best may not go to a company such as Moth but I have no evidence for that.

It will be interesting how the Technics fares. If you move it on, I have a good friend in Guildford who is a DJ, and he could find it some work. Let me know how it goes.

Jack

 

[v1nn1e]

My tuppenny bit...

Once had an Ortofon 530 and it was pretty good, so I'd expect the 520 to be a pretty reasonable performer. You can upgrade the body with the 540 stylus, which I believe may still be available from someone like William Thakker.

Sell both the Rega and Moth and throw some money at a full Technoarm, perhaps you can get a discount on one sans weight...?

 

[TheFlash]

My tuppenny bit...

Once had an Ortofon 530 and it was pretty good, so I'd expect the 520 to be a pretty reasonable performer. You can upgrade the body with the 540 stylus, which I believe may still be available from someone like William Thakker.

Sell both the Rega and Moth and throw some money at a full Tecnoarm, perhaps you can get a discount on one sans weight...?

You've spotted my ultimate goal of course but ... but it basically needs to be self-funding so I need to work out how best to split/group and sell (or indeed keep). I think I can make that work but I need to see the SL1200 and original arm in the metal before I start doing my sums.

 

[kabayiri]

I went through a period experimenting with Rega arms (as well as other add-ons to Rega TTs).

I did have a Moth Arm, alongside the RB300, and an original Audio Note Arm One (essentially a selected RB250 with better wiring).

I still have the latter in a box. You can tell the difference between the 3 arms, though which changes make this difference is not clear.

 

[uzzy]

Advice please re arms and carts. @Speedracer @Non-Smoking Man: are you receiving?

Wammers may recall I bought myself a lovely Systemdek IIX900 (mint.boxed, new Ortofon 520 cart) just before Christmas. It has the original Moth RB250 arm and plastic stub. Not sure if this link still works: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-1200-mk2-/223420762012?nma=true&si=gZRQz%2BASL%2Bsd9aOSyOcDRZlrj88%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



I've just bought another TT on pfm, mainly for the tecnoweight (!) but also because, well, I've got a soft spot for the SL1200/1210 and brief ownership would be fun. It's a Technics SL1200 Mk2 with Rega RB250 arm,Shure M97xe cart and Tecnoweight but also comes with original Technics arm. £250+some redundant IEM's was hard to resist. The lid is badly scratched and top surface of base is not in good shape but it's fully functional. I collect it around 10th March. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technics-1200-mk2-/223420762012?nma=true&si=gZRQz%2BASL%2Bsd9aOSyOcDRZlrj88%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



I will listen to it of course but then sell it on unless it blows the Systemdek away (don't think so!). I will reinstall the original Technics arm and either strip and refurb the base, buy one of those metal covers for it, or just sell it as a complete deck in need of cosmetic TLC, depending on energy levels... I'll separately sell one of the RB250 arms.

Question is which bits to keep to make the most of my Systemdek?

Arm: I have the original and minty Moth RB250, the Rega RB250 and the Technics arm. I'm tempted to keep the Moth so it is as original as possible: are there any sonic/engineering differences between the Moth and Rega versions which would tilt you one way or t'other? Obviously the keeper will get the Tecnoweight!

Cart: I know the Ortofon 520 is low hours and know nothing of the Shure M97xe's history, so keeping the 520 is the safe bet. I'll obviously compare them but wondered if wammers had their preferences here.

I'll put the kettle on and wait for your replies

Thanks in anticipation!

I would send both to Johnnie at Audio Origami to check them over and he will tell you which one to keep.  It seems the bearings vary between arms (from OK to very very good regardless of the name on the arm) .. technically there is no difference other than the name on the item. 

As to which cartridge to keep - personal preference here is for the Ortofon which to me has a fuller flatter sound than the Shure,  i think the Shure has a rising treble response (from memory so check out online reviews) so if a system is a tad dull the Shure will sound better.   However, try the Shure with and without the damper as it does make a difference and I do not remember if it smooths things out a tad.

 

[uzzy]

You've spotted my ultimate goal of course but ... but it basically needs to be self-funding so I need to work out how best to split/group and sell (or indeed keep). I think I can make that work but I need to see the SL1200 and original arm in the metal before I start doing my sums.

If you change arms I would consider a Mission 774 original which to my ears trounces the Regas (and Technoarms) .. ask me nicely and I can lend you one to try. 

Also there is the Audio Technica AT 1100 (ask me nicely and you can lend one of those too with an Audio Technica OC5 installed) and the AT 1010 (yes i have one of those too sat on a Biscuit tin  Systemdek II at the mo).

 

[Guzziboy]

I would send both to Johnnie at Audio Origami to check them over and he will tell you which one to keep.  It seems the bearings vary between arms (from OK to very very good regardless of the name on the arm) .. technically there is no difference other than the name on the item. 

Or, given that you probably travel up the M6 frequently, you could drop them off with Dominic at Northwest Analogue at Carnforth.

 

[TheFlash]

I would send both to Johnnie at Audio Origami to check them over and he will tell you which one to keep.  It seems the bearings vary between arms (from OK to very very good regardless of the name on the arm) .. technically there is no difference other than the name on the item. 

As to which cartridge to keep - personal preference here is for the Ortofon which to me has a fuller flatter sound than the Shure,  i think the Shure has a rising treble response (from memory so check out online reviews) so if a system is a tad dull the Shure will sound better.   However, try the Shure with and without the damper as it does make a difference and I do not remember if it smooths things out a tad.

Thanks David. When I've done my sums, if I can generate enough to buy a Tecnoarm (two have been and gone recently on eBay around £375) then I'll sell both arms (I hadn't thought of going straight to this until @v1nn1e mentioned it), but if I am to keep one then contacting Johnnie sounds like a great idea. I'll need to check how much he'd charge for this as I presume his time isn't free and/or comes with an intention on my part to take on board some AO mods.

Re carts, I'll check out reviews as well as using my ears but it's great to know what to watch out for (I like a bit of expectation bias!).

See you at Keggie.

Or, given that you probably travel up the M6 frequently, you could drop them off with Dominic at Northwest Analogue at Carnforth.

Well blow me, I had no idea Carnforth had such assets! Shall Google...

 

[Bazzer]

Sell both the Rega and Moth and throw some money at a full Technoarm, perhaps you can get a discount on one sans weight...?

The Techno arm comes with Michell VTA adjuster which will not fit the Systemdek armboard , 1.125" dia and 1" dia respectively , you could get the board hole enlarged but it also lifts the arm 2mm which may be too much depending on cart . 

 

[uzzy]

The Techno arm comes with Michell VTA adjuster which will not fit the Systemdek armboard , 1.125" dia and 1" dia respectively , you could get the board hole enlarged but it also lifts the arm 2mm which may be too much depending on cart . 

the Origin live VTA  (https://www.originlive.com/shop/universal-threaded-vta-adjuster.html) fitted on my Systemdek arm board ok without having to enlarge the hole (which was a Dunlop cut out one not a DIY jobbie) but perhaps the Origin live one is thinner overall than the Michell offering.

As to the additional few mm height,  I had no problems on mine.  The Arm board sits lower than the top plate when the platter is mounted and I have always had to raise arms quite a bit for most if not all cartridges I have used.   

 

[TheFlash]

The Techno arm comes with Michell VTA adjuster which will not fit the Systemdek armboard , 1.125" dia and 1" dia respectively , you could get the board hole enlarged but it also lifts the arm 2mm which may be too much depending on cart . 

Thanks for the heads up: I'd assumed they were interchangeable!

And thanks once more to Uzzy for his further additions. :^

 

[uzzy]

Thanks for the heads up: I'd assumed they were interchangeable!

And thanks once more to Uzzy for his further additions. :^

Quick run round with a file will sort the hole out if it is too small - and as for set up check out Bazzers recent post on the "Buying a Turntable" thread 

 

[Bazzer]

Quick run round with a file will sort the hole out if it is too small - and as for set up check out Bazzers recent post on the "Buying a Turntable" thread 

Yeah sod CNC machining get the rasp out  xD

 

[Guzziboy]

Well blow me, I had no idea Carnforth had such assets! Shall Google...

Not only that, but it's a very short run to Devil's Bridge, for a sausage and bacon sandwich to fortify you for the rest of the journey.

 

[TheFlash]

Not only that, but it's a very short run to Devil's Bridge, for a sausage and bacon sandwich to fortify you for the rest of the journey.

Your username would suggest why you know about Devil’s Bridge. I’m a Blackbird man myself... well, I’m kidding myself as I ride it so rarely these days. Love the A65.

 

[TheFlash]

Update:

• Tecnoweight now installed on Systemdek (Moth) arm
  
• Original arm reinstalled on SL1200, with thanks to Mike @stylesound for his hands-on tutorial
  
• Deck running smoothly and sounding excellent
  

• NAD badged RB250 arm and Moth weight for sale (see below) with new AT95e cart.
  

 

[TheFlash]

Update: happy PfM buyer collected SL1200 with original Technics arm and AT95e cart on Saturday before I headed to Kegworth.

RB250 didn't shift at the show and will be on eBay soon.

 

[TheFlash]

An update 31st March 2019
In case anyone is still watching with bated breath:

More shuffling to come following latest acquisition: couldn't resist an apparently mint Rega Planar 2 with Michell Tecnoarm fitted (no cart). Will collect it from Manchester late April.

The plan, noting the fit issue highlghted by @Bazzer, is to nonetheless fit the Tecnoarm to the Systemdek IIX900. Cries for further help and advice may ensue.

A couple of years ago, I lent a friend my redundant P3 (pre-RP3, I think) and Arcam A85 (for its phono stage only). She's returning these to me in exchange for the Technics automatic deck I picked up in a charity shop and refurbed the lid of, plus a cheap generic phono stage.

So shortly I will be putting up for sale:

• Arcam A85 with optional MM phono stage
  
• Rega P3 or RP3 TBC, original arm, AT440 cart TBC, lid
  
• Rega Planar 2, lid and one of the following two arms...
  
• Moth RB250, Moth counterweight
  
• NAD RB250, Michell Tecnoweight
  

I suspect the Tecnoweight might sell more easily on its own, and a stock Rega counterweight is cheap enough so probably the way to go.

A complex way of getting to where I want to be but the most cost-effective I have been able to engineer...