Solid state power amps with valve pre amps / stages.

[Greg-hobbs]

The unwanted boxes are now out the door freeing up some valuable spending money.

I currently run a NAIM pre/power amp, a fairly beefy NAP180 power i'd be looking to keep (as I love it) and a NAC72 pre with the K phono boards fitted, running through Rogers studio 1 speakers. All fed by a MF X-ray CD spinner or Modified Technics SL1210 with Sumiko MMT arm and Dynavector Karat cart.

A few people, admittedly not here (i think!), have mentioned that Naim power amps make fairly nice partners for valve pre amps or buffer stages. I have never owned any valve gear and the Wam has started to pique my curiosity. Does anyone on here have any experience in this area?

Ideally i'd like to stick with a pre that has a built in phono-stage but I am flexible on this. Budget is around £500 in the kitty and the £300 odd the recently serviced NAC should rake in.

Or should I just do what I always do when I get an itch and just buy another cart!

 

[naxos10]

Hi George,

You could try a Croft Micro 25..... pre they work well with solid state power amps. You will need a mc step up amp or sut if you plan to use the Karat.

BR

Alan

 

[bluedroog]

I use a Croft 25 with Quad 909 and I'm very happy. I did need to reduce the gain though.

 

[andreweast]

I tried a Micro 25 with a NAP 200 once and it was a terrible match. I did try one of my Croft pre-amps with a 405-2 yesterday before I sold the 405 and it sounded really good. 'Why am I selling this?' was my thought. But with Naim it was pretty bad (this was years ago, mind).

 

[wino2020]

In the past the wisdom was that although you could run any power amp with a Naim pre, there were problems if you tried other pre makes with Naim power amps. I think it was something to do with bandwidth restrictions but perhaps others on the Wam will correct me on this. Might be a choice for me sometime so comments welcome. I did try to find out on the Naim forum but no success. I did see a lot of reports like those here describing how bad the non-Naim pre and Naim power combo sounded, which I suppose might be a reflection of mis-match, so I think you might need to be careful and do more research before leaping in.

I presume that you have a Hicap which you will be moving on as well so your budget would be a little higher!

 

[taff]

I raised a similar Q a while ago:

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?100590-Well-this-should-be-interesting-Naim-and-LV-s-!

Have had good results with hybrid integrateds and at the moment I'm still very much enjoying switching back to a valve pre and S/S power now and again!

 

[Greg-hobbs]

No Peter I haven't tried a Hi-cap with any of my naim gear, does it really make £300-400 worth of difference?

I originally got the NAP180 because of the extra power, but because its PSU was reckoned to be better than the Flatcap (which is a total con!).

I quite often see designs by Teddy Pardo / Avondale up for sale on eBay, that combine more than one PSU I'd probably be more inclined to take the plunge on one of those instead.

Cheers for all the help guys.

 

[James Evans]

The naim power amps have fairly low input impedance don't they? I'm no expert but don't valve pres typically have much higher output impedance than solid state, so careful matching would be required.

 

[Juancho]

Valve pres such as some Audio Notes and World D designs use output Txs and as such have very low output resistance. But my Aikido cf and previous CF design have no problem driving a solid state 6k load so You can probably use a cf design, but try one first!

 

[andreweast]

I should take back what I said, because my experiment was with a relatively recent Naim power-amp. I've heard that old 250s could match well with a valve pre, although never heard it myself. Perhaps the older Naim have different characteristics.

 

[deejaitch]

In the past I have run a Naim 150 with an Icon PS1. A decent combination for the money, and the Icon did smooth off some of the Naim 'edge' .

 

[chipman]

Until I went the Integrated path (for WAF issues :roll: ), the best sound combination I had was an AR LS22 pre going into a massive Mark Levinson ML3.

That is why I went for my current MF Tri-Vista which has a valve front end into transistor Power section.

 

[The Strat]

No Peter I haven't tried a Hi-cap with any of my naim gear, does it really make £300-400 worth of difference? I originally got the NAP180 because of the extra power, but because its PSU was reckoned to be better than the Flatcap (which is a total con!). I quite often see designs by Teddy Pardo / Avondale up for sale on eBay, that combine more than one PSU I'd probably be more inclined to take the plunge on one of those instead. Cheers for all the help guys.

Not sure that the HC works with a 72? Is the 72 the forerunner to the 282? If so it will. But it does it improve the performance - yes greater soundstage, resolution, grip I could go on.

 

[It Cost How Much!?!]

The Hi-CAP was introduced when the NAC72 & 62 were around and the move from 4 pin to 5 pin DIN took place. So a 72 will work with a Hi-Cap. The 72 became the 82 full width pre if I remember right and then the 282.

The Hi-CAP is better than a SNAPS, but not that much I thought. It sharpens up the sound and adds depth. At the time I had a 42/110/SNAPS and then a 32.5/HI-CAP/160. I liked the 32 more than the 72 and still do.

 

[Petrat]

Valve pres such as some Audio Notes and World D designs use output Txs and as such have very low output resistance. But my Aikido cf and previous CF design have no problem driving a solid state 6k load so You can probably use a cf design, but try one first!

I ran a NAP300 with an EAR pre for quite a few years, which worked very well into NEAT speakers.

Mine was an EAR868, but the 864 also has output transformers, meaning it'll mate with any power amp (the Naim was something like 20K ohm input).

 

[wino2020]

The Hi-CAP was introduced when the NAC72 & 62 were around and the move from 4 pin to 5 pin DIN took place. So a 72 will work with a Hi-Cap. The 72 became the 82 full width pre if I remember right and then the 282. The Hi-CAP is better than a SNAPS, but not that much I thought. It sharpens up the sound and adds depth. At the time I had a 42/110/SNAPS and then a 32.5/HI-CAP/160. I liked the 32 more than the 72 and still do.

I largely agree with Bob. 62 became 92 but the 72 and 82 co-existed for a while. Before I had my 250 I had a 62/90 to which I added a HiCap. OK the plan was to go to the 250 when one came up S/H, which wasn't that common in those days, but that combo lasted more than a year after I added the HC because I thought it made a big difference to the whole expression of the music. Just more natural, better vocals, clearer staging etc. I think my HC was about £300 S/H 25 years ago and at more or less the same price now they seem to be a safe investment. If you're going down that line get one which has been serviced and re-capped in the last two or three years if you can. It costs £300 odd for the re-capping at Naim prices and having one which has been done will make it easier to sell on. It will last you for ages if you want to keep it

Of course, have a listen if you can

 

[sunbeamgls]

The latest DR version of the hi-cap is a seroius improvement on the earlier version, at least it is with a 282.

 

[Greg-hobbs]

Wow just spent the last 5 hours straight listening to the Naim amps hooked up with a teddy-cap...

What an improvement. Easily worth the £220 it cost 2nd hand.

Funnily enough the improvement is way more pronounced with my CD's then vinyl. Haven't spent this long listening critically to CDs in years.

Cheers for the tips guys.