Venturing into the ARCventures

[lsegeorge]

My greetings to the group !

Its been a couple of months now, that I have been brewing the idea of upgrading my amplification.
I recently did the first couple of updates to my system since acquiring my Tannoy Legacy Ardens with the addition of an Auralic and an upgrade to my cartridge and I felt that amplification was the next logical step.

I have owned my GATO DIA250 (1st gen) for 7+ years now and I felt the time has come to try something different.

I always had a sweet spot for ARC gear so over the weekend I pulled the trigger on a used Audio Research Ref 75 se power amplifier. Now it's the painful wait. It should be here in around 3 weeks time.

The idea, which is probably crazy, is to use GATO DIA250 as a Preamp/ DAC until I am ready for the next upgrade…maybe an ARC Ref 5 SE.

 

[George 47]

George,

What an excellent name! And guess what, I have an ARC Ref 75SE here, you are in for a treat.

Your idea would be OK but for one reason. The power amplifier is a true balanced amp. That means it only accepts balanced inputs. If your GATO has a balanced output then OK connect away. If you have no option then use a transformer to convert your RCA to Balanced and away you go. Do not over-fuss it as the 75SE is a sweet spot in the range and a lot of people buy one and keep it, despite getting a REF 250SE.

This may be a little fussy but accounts for some of its sound quality.

BUT it will be worth it, the Ref 5SE and 75SE is a classic pairing and will be worth getting. It performs better than many new dynamic, powerful, thin and threadbare amps. After all, music is made by humans to be heard by humans.

Being greedy and by sheer good fortune, I got a Ref 6SE and it is errr....very, very good. Good sounds await.

 

[lsegeorge]

Your idea would be OK but for one reason. The power amplifier is a true balanced amp. That means it only accepts balanced inputs. If your GATO has a balanced output then OK connect away.

Hey George! thanks for the feedback!
The GATO does have balanced pre outs so I should be good to go, I guess ! I will need to invest in the right cable though!

 

[bencat]

You can now wait for the inevitable cable storm that seems to be generated . Okay my view is that there are in my view and with my hearing quite a difference in the tone of cables , no it is not huge night and day stuff but I do hear differences .

In my limited experience (I can not afford expensive cable just to try and I never get sent samples to listen to) there is far less difference with XLR balanced cables good quality and reasonably priced pro cables being as good as anything else .

I have a theory which those of technical persuasion can either say possibly of not a chance . I think that Balanced operation has similar limitations as TOSLINK connections . By this I mean the cable is not the most important part but the sending and receiving transformers and set up is the vital part . If these are top quality (and in the case of ARC and Gato they probably will be ) l think that any sesnsible cable made correctly will sound excellent . When these items are less than top quality then the cable starts to matter and differences are heard .

 

[hifinutt]

wonderful , good to see you on the group . be good to see how the ref75 cope in cyprus in the heat but i guess you have thought of that . having tried now many many amps with my tannoy legacy i find they respond well to nearly everything

the ref75 will be superb and a nice 5 se will be the icing on the cake . some years ago i had one but these days i stick mainly to bel canto pre amps . these are reliable . just got an eix pre and that might just give the ref5se a run for the money !! lot cooler running and more reliable too

The best amp i had with the tannoy legacy was thrax enyo followed by sudgen a21se . but the eix pre with F5 monos [ clones] is pretty good i must say . enjoy . can we arrange a bake off in cyprus !!

 

[lsegeorge]

....be good to see how the ref75 cope in cyprus in the heat but i guess you have thought of that ....

emotionaly driven purchases and thinking of all possibilities.... not so sure about that !!!
Jokes aside, this is one of my concerns. I do have an enclosed hifi rack which does not help but at least I can allow plenty of space over the Ref 75.

I have plenty of time to think about the Pre Amp so any suggestions that could be a good match to both the Amp and the speakers are more than welcome !! Will also need to get a DAC as the GATO will be currently acting as both Pre and DAC. Qutest and Denafrips seem to be the most common recommendations at the 1k mark.

As regards the bake off...the beers in the fridge are already cooling!!!

 

[hifinutt]

this will be a good match with the ref 75 , very cool running . beautifully organic . reliable . probably got a better remote than any arc remote !! has a dac in it and a streamer
sounds amazing .

https://belcantodesign.com/home/e1x/e1x-dac/

https://www.hifiwigwam.com/threads/rockna-wavelight-dac-pre-or-bel-canto-eix-dac-pre.116305/

 

[DomT]

When I bought an ARC pre and power amp the supplying dealer (KJ West One in London) recommended Transparent XLR cables. I didn’t do a comparison but the dealer told me that the majority of ARC amps that they sold, they sold with Transparent cables.

 

[lsegeorge]

Guess what arrived in the post !!!

 

[lsegeorge]

Longish process of re arranging the rack...primarily to give the ARC beathing space.
Also removed any cables and devices that I never really used to cut on the cable clutter.
Mostly from the AV system

This is the b4



and this is the after



and the process

 

[lsegeorge]

But most importantly happy Easter to all
Health and Happiness to all the fellow wamers and all of your loved ones!!

 

[lsegeorge]

Greetings to the Group !!!
Over the past few months I have been in the lookout for a preamp meant to replace my GATO

Currently I am using the GATO250 integrated as a pre and the ARC75SE as a power amp

Today I came across an opportunity to exchange the GATO with a Sudgen Masterclass LA-4.
I am all for trying things even if it means that I will eventually want to move on.
And although my ideal move would have been an ARC Ref pre amp (Ref3, Ref5, Ref5SE) I am seriously considering the Sudgen preamp possibility.

Any thoughts ??
It there a chance that the Suggen/ARC combo will be a disaster or inferior to the GATO/ARC combo

Any thoughts welcome !!!

 

[hifinutt]

hard to answer that one !!! only your ears can decide . I guess they both have xlr outputs . personally not a fan of sugden remotes . there is quite a waiting list in the past for sugden repairs
be worth exploring though .

 

[Friendly Ghost]

I have another question (sorry for the hijack). Is your amp doing ok in the enclosed rack? I too have one of those (racks that is), so thought excluding class A amps would probably be best.
Would you say that's probably not necessary?

 

[lsegeorge]

I have another question (sorry for the hijack). Is your amp doing ok in the enclosed rack? I too have one of those (racks that is), so thought excluding class A amps would probably be best.
Would you say that's probably not necessary?

With the amount of room/height I have over the Arc its doing okay to date!
Remember I am based in Cyprus!
So I would say go for it!

 

[lsegeorge]

Greetings to the Group
Unfortunately the Sugden transaction fell through.
So the Arcventure of pairing the ARC Ref75SE with a good Preamp continues...

I was able to identify a couple of options local to me and within my budget.

• ARC LS15MKII - EUR 1.800
• Cary SLP03 - EUR 1.100

In addition to the above, one suggestion provided by a dealer is the Primaluna Evo 400 Pre.
Its a beautiful pre and very well reviewed online and obviously a much newer machine.
Cost is very different obviously, new 4.700. I also found a trade in unit for 3.800.

 

[DomT]

Greetings to the Group
Unfortunately the Sugden transaction fell through.
So the Arcventure of pairing the ARC Ref75SE with a good Preamp continues...

I was able to identify a couple of options local to me and within my budget.

• ARC LS15MKII - EUR 1.800
• Cary SLP03 - EUR 1.100

In addition to the above, one suggestion provided by a dealer is the Primaluna Evo 400 Pre.
Its a beautiful pre and very well reviewed online and obviously a much newer machine.
Cost is very different obviously, new 4.700. I also found a trade in unit for 3.800.

I have an SP17 and used to own an LS25 mk2. I like the sound of ARC products. They seem to go well together.

 

[lsegeorge]

Thats super useful input.

The price seems to be fair as it comes with new NOS tubes and a new remote.
It also seems to be in pretty good condition with original box and paper work.

Its probably a 25 year old unit and as such it feels kind of strange to be considering it as an upgrade with everything else in the system being more recent. Having said that this is more of a psychological concern...

 

[DomT]

Thats super useful input.

The price seems to be fair as it comes with new NOS tubes and a new remote.
It also seems to be in pretty good condition with original box and paper work.

Its probably a 25 year old unit and as such it feels kind of strange to be considering it as an upgrade with everything else in the system being more recent. Having said that this is more of a psychological concern...

Some still like the ARC preamps from the 80s. I am yet to hear one but they had a warmer sound then. Then in the 90s they got progressively cleaner sounding as have many other brands like McIntosh. I realise that you have limited choice but it it’s not to your taste you should be able to sell it on again.

 

[lsegeorge]

I pulled the trigger !!!
Nice Greek chap, was easy to deal with, so the LS15 should be with me in a couple of days.

Comes with JAN Sylvania NOS tubes and the worn original tubes.
Tbh I dont know much about tubes but this could be a start to experimenting !

This means that the my GATO has to go and will need a DAC... so the journey continues!
Thanks again for the input and will keep everyone posted !