What is your favorite 12ax7 tube?

[naka]

We all have some choices between new tubes and NOS tubes, but the 12ax7 (ecc83) type is one of the less available.

So what are your favorite ones from the new ones? JJ? Electro Harmonix?
It is true that the results can vary from component to component, but it would be nice to know which are the most used by fellow members.

 

[pmcuk]

I'd like to help but the 12AX7 is a tube I only use in stage amps. It sounded great in my Selmer Treble 'n Bass amp and it's my favourite input tube in a stage amp. I've never used it in an audio stage, though when I had a turntable I built a great sounding phono stage using it - the "Last PAS".

I have a pile of 12AX7 tubes I never use and that I'll no doubt sell one day including Mullards etc etc. but regretfully nothing to audition them in. Sorry!

 

[audio_PHIL_e]

I bought a few ECC83 several years ago. They were selected for being "high gain" and I hoped they'd make my guitar amplifiers break up at lower volume. What they actually did was make them sound "tizzy", the angry-wasp-in-a-jamjar sound. I didn't like them.

I also dislike people calling them by the American description "12AX7", and they're not "tubes" they are VALVEs

 

[StingRay]

We all have some choices between new tubes and NOS tubes, but the 12ax7 (ecc83) type is one of the less available.

So what are your favorite ones from the new ones? JJ? Electro Harmonix?
It is true that the results can vary from component to component, but it would be nice to know which are the most used by fellow members.

"12ax7 (ecc83) type is one of the less available"

I thought they were common?

The only new ones I've had are Genalex Gold Lions, they were pretty good but I sold them as had too many valves and was not using them. I used them in a Jolida DAC, I now use some rare Rayethons with adapters.

JJ are pretty cheap, not tried them.

 

[Jazid]

General opinion that I read on the forums is that JJ gold pin e83cc are decent for new stock, also their ecc803s.
This valve type is very, very common, may new producers still, though their quality varies from tolerable to "really?".
NOS is still an option, albeit the valves are mostly either as cheap as the heating bill, or of questionable provenance, or late production items (1980s), the latter often has lower quality internals than from 50s to mid-70s equivalents, but still better metallurgy than most modern stuff.

 

[ozzric]

I have tried a few in the Phono stage a my Meishu and the best sounding in that circuit to my ears are Mullards from 1970's onward. I found earlier versions to be a bit softer.
I have not tried (due to being outrageously priced) equivalent CV4004's or M8137's of the same era alhough some say they may be better still.
The later 1970's tubes have the basic shield logo with Mullard written below as in the picture. Im glad I have a stock of these as the prices are only going upwards.
I also rate the Valvo ECC83's which you can get a little cheaper.
I have heard newer Psvanes in a friends OTO which I could live with at a push but seemed bright but may settle as they age and burn in.

 

[Jazid]

Probably the best made which is still relatively available new is the Tesla E83CC frame grid. Sonics are person and amp dependent of course. Nothing wrong with any of Philips/Mullard/Valvo/Siemens/Telefunken, and I wouldn't discount offerings from many of the USA manufacturers either.

 

[Ian]

Genalex Gold Lion here. I've not extensively tube rolled but this is where I ended up.

 

[naka]

"12ax7 (ecc83) type is one of the less available"

I thought they were common?

The only new ones I've had are Genalex Gold Lions, they were pretty good but I sold them as had too many valves and was not using them. I used them in a Jolida DAC, I now use some rare Rayethons with adapters.

JJ are pretty cheap, not tried them.

The offer of 12ax7 tubes is less than other types, especially when looking for NOS. My comment is the unfortunate result of my search for very good tubes, at least superior to the common (and available), JJ, EH, Gold Lion, Psvane, etc...
On the other hand the 12au7 type is available for every taste and wallet

 

[StingRay]

Probably the best made which is still relatively available new is the Tesla E83CC frame grid. Sonics are person and amp dependent of course. Nothing wrong with any of Philips/Mullard/Valvo/Siemens/Telefunken, and I wouldn't discount offerings from many of the USA manufacturers either.

Those Tesla valves look very expensive, over £100 each, is that correct?

 

[StingRay]

The offer of 12ax7 tubes is less than other types, especially when looking for NOS. My comment is the unfortunate result of my search for very good tubes, at least superior to the common (and available), JJ, EH, Gold Lion, Psvane, etc...
On the other hand the 12au7 type is available for every taste and wallet

I would be careful using 12AU7 in gear designed for 12AX7.
"While you can physically use a 12AU7 tube in place of a 12AX7 in a circuit, it’s not recommended to do. Most circuits that are designed for a 12AX7 will not react well to the significantly lower gain of the 12AU7. It can also cause issues with the bias of the amplifier, which can lead to very serious damage, including blowing the amp circuit!"

Maybe a lot around as not used in many circuits?

 

[naka]

I would be careful using 12AU7 in gear designed for 12AX7.
"While you can physically use a 12AU7 tube in place of a 12AX7 in a circuit, it’s not recommended to do. Most circuits that are designed for a 12AX7 will not react well to the significantly lower gain of the 12AU7. It can also cause issues with the bias of the amplifier, which can lead to very serious damage, including blowing the amp circuit!"

Maybe a lot around as not used in many circuits?

I know that is not the same tube... but thanks for the warning

I was just making an exemple with another popular tube used in the preamp sections of amplifiers.

 

[StingRay]

I know that is not the same tube... but thanks for the warning

I was just making an exemple with another popular tube used in the preamp sections of amplifiers.

Probably ok in preamps, I used 12AT7 in my DAC, seemed ok.

Actually would quite like some more valves, I did nearly buy some Psvane ones.

Not sure how long mine will last. Had a problem a while ago with crackling which seemed to be the contacts, as took out and replaced no problems since.

 

[rabski]

Probably the best made which is still relatively available new is the Tesla E83CC frame grid. Sonics are person and amp dependent of course. Nothing wrong with any of Philips/Mullard/Valvo/Siemens/Telefunken, and I wouldn't discount offerings from many of the USA manufacturers either.

Agree, though I haven't used ECC83 in anything for a fair while.

The last thing I had here that used them was a fairly standard phono stage circuit, with ECC82 gain stage and ECC83 follower. Out of the normal suspects, Siemens and Telefunken I remember as being 'clean' sounding with reasonably extended frequency, early Mullard as having slightly 'warmer' mids. Modern production? Everyone rates the JJ gold pins as very good and they're used in one or two very good designs.

Standard advice I always give with valve swapping: don't get carried away with all the talk about 'night and day' differences. The differences between different makes/years of the same valve type are small. Sometimes extremely small. They ARE different, but it's subtle things like frequency extremes and soundstage. Always put the brakes on if it gets to the stage of spending the sort of money that would get you are bigger improvement elsewhere.

The Telefunken ECC803S is the holy grail of ECC83 types, but genuine NOS ones have asking prices verging on £1000. Each. If you spent £2000 on two valves for a phono stage, it's about 100% likely that you'd get a bigger improvement by spending £2000 on a better phono stage.

 

[Lurch]

Probably ok in preamps, I used 12AT7 in my DAC, seemed ok.

Actually would quite like some more valves, I did nearly buy some Psvane ones.

Not sure how long mine will last. Had a problem a while ago with crackling which seemed to be the contacts, as took out and replaced no problems since.

If I remember correctly, your running a Jolida?? If so whilst AT/81s will work, as I found out accidently when I put tfk 83s,in my Lector and tfk 81s, in my Jolida by mistake. The Jolida sounds way better with AX/83s, my Black Ice came fitted with Sylvania 5751s but have since swapped them out for my favoured tfk 83s, I just love what TFKs do in my system.

I could send you a couple of different pairs of 83s to play with/try if you want?

 

[rabski]

Look on your favourite search engine for substitutes, but generally ECC83/ECC803/5751/12AX7/12DT7/B339/CV492 and a few others are close to direct substitutes.

ECC82 and ECC81 (12AU7 and 12AT7) have the same pin connections and filament arrangement, but are electrically totally different. They will work, but if someone designed something properly, any other valve types will be running way off their ideal operating point. You'll just add distortion and non-linearity in most cases.

 

[StingRay]

If I remember correctly, your running a Jolida?? If so whilst AT/81s will work, as I found out accidently when I put tfk 83s,in my Lector and tfk 81s, in my Jolida by mistake. The Jolida sounds way better with AX/83s, my Black Ice came fitted with Sylvania 5751s but have since swapped them out for my favoured tfk 83s, I just love what TFKs do in my system.

I could send you a couple of different pairs of 83s to play with/try if you want?

Yes Jolida. I'm using some Raytheons JAN 5755 Reliability with adapters, which Open Door highly recommended. He said they were better than 12AX7s.
Problem is extremely difficult to find now.

 

[Jazid]

Those Tesla valves look very expensive, over £100 each, is that correct?

There's a bit of froth about them. They're worth it relative to other types, but in absolute terms yes, it is expensive I agree. Keep looking and you'll find some out there. Not related but the ECC88 by Tesla are also fabulous.

 

[chezi]

Ei ecc83 12AX7 currently in use but swap about with Telefunken ecc83 and Electro Harmonix. I definately prefer the Ei ,............................... this week.

chz

 

[Jazid]

I agree, EI have been underrated valves IMHO, but also verging towards unobtainium new. I have a magnificent example, should be in a museum, of what I take to be honest manufacture: It's an EI valve, with Telefunken metallurgy, Philips/Mullard glass, and a diamond base. Marked Telefunken in powdery print! I think it's early days after Tfk shifted their stock to former Yugoslavia, and the metal was already attached to the base. Awesome


Yes, I know I should get a life, but toobs keep getting in the way.