Which LP12?

[Automaticftp]

All - 

Decided to get back to an LP12 (and vinyl).  I'll spare you all the long story, but am now considering two different LP12s and would appreciate your input.

1.  New Majik LP12 - $4995 USD.

2.  LP12 - Lingo - Cirkus - Ekos - no cartridge (I'd use a old K9, an AT VM95ML, or an OC-9ML).  This is listed at $3500 USD.

I know the new Majik includes the Majik subchassis and Karousel, which is the one thing that makes me hesitate on #2 - adding the Karousel makes #2 $4500 USD.  

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[JensA]

I am in a similar situation - considering purchasing a brand new Lin. Majik -and told the Linn dealer here in Germany that I would alternatively also consider buying a used LP12 from  him for same budget.

His advice was that he would recommend a new Majik LP12 as this is excellent value for money (for Linn standards)

Recommended first upgrades were used Lingo 2 and Trampolin.

 

[akamatsu]

I'm thinking that the Majik sub-chassis would be superior to the Cirkus sub-chassis. After I installed a Radikal on mine, I found the Circus SC to be rather limiting. Also, it might be best to listen to both and then decide. I would consider the Karousel to be essential.

 

[Automaticftp]

I'm thinking that the Majik sub-chassis would be superior to the Cirkus sub-chassis. After I installed a Radikal on mine, I found the Circus SC to be rather limiting. Also, it might be best to listen to both and then decide. I would consider the Karousel to be essential.

Thanks!  I'd listen to both, but no one here has a new one, and the used one is in Florida (I'm in Colorado).  I have a Mose/Hercules2 I could put in a new Majik; which would help.  (I know I'd need to swap the motor.)

I have to say that new is appealing; but the Lingo and Ekos give me pause . . . 

 

[Dasher]

For me it would depend on the state of the Ekos. If it is in good condition then it is way better than the offering on the Majik. All dealers will recommend an upgrade path if you show that you are thinking that way but really, a Cirkus, Lingo , Ekos LP12 is a very good one indeed. A recapped Lingo outperforms a Mose/Hercules - it has a lower noise floor and the soundstage is more stable. But these are very subtle differences and, if the Lingo has not been recapped then you may find the Mose combination to be superior. You can swap out a Cirkus for around $1000 - you may be able to do this with a Krane too but there''s very little info on the second hand value of used Kranes.

The Majik is new - and this has great appeal as you know that it should be 'right' from the start. The older LP12 has some serious upgrades but they are only valuable if they are in good shape. The $1500 difference will buy you a lot of nice vinyl -  it matters not one iota what the spec of the LP12 is if you have nothing to play on it!

The Karousel is good - no doubt about it - but a decent Cirkus is no slouch. The AT VM95s are good - even the 'E' is good and the ML is excellent.

If the Ekos is good then that is probably the way that I would go.

 

[mskaye]

For me it would depend on the state of the Ekos. If it is in good condition then it is way better than the offering on the Majik. All dealers will recommend an upgrade path if you show that you are thinking that way but really, a Cirkus, Lingo , Ekos LP12 is a very good one indeed. A recapped Lingo outperforms a Mose/Hercules - it has a lower noise floor and the soundstage is more stable. But these are very subtle differences and, if the Lingo has not been recapped then you may find the Mose combination to be superior. You can swap out a Cirkus for around $1000 - you may be able to do this with a Krane too but there''s very little info on the second hand value of used Kranes.

The Majik is new - and this has great appeal as you know that it should be 'right' from the start. The older LP12 has some serious upgrades but they are only valuable if they are in good shape. The $1500 difference will buy you a lot of nice vinyl -  it matters not one iota what the spec of the LP12 is if you have nothing to play on it!

The Karousel is good - no doubt about it - but a decent Cirkus is no slouch. The AT VM95s are good - even the 'E' is good and the ML is excellent.

If the Ekos is good then that is probably the way that I would go.

I'm waiting for Thomas's thoughts on this.  A tricky decision!  

 

[Daveyf]

Surely the decision must be based on the age of the used LP12? If it is a recent model with a newer Lingo..or maybe it is an old model with a shoe box Lingo? I would think the condition of the Cirkus should be considered as well. Personally, I would go for the new Majik and upgrade as funds became available. This would insure the better ( and newer) bearing, along with a new plinth, etc. 

 

[mskaye]

Surely the decision must be based on the age of the used LP12? If it is a recent model with a newer Lingo..or maybe it is an old model with a shoe box Lingo? I would think the condition of the Cirkus should be considered as well. Personally, I would go for the new Majik and upgrade as funds became available. This would insure the better ( and newer) bearing, along with a new plinth, etc. 

I'm leaning to the new Majik as well.  

 

[chickenlogic]

Buy a used Majik subchassis from LP12bits or elsewhere on the web for $300.  Pay the extra $1000 for the Karousel kit, which includes new springs and grommets and setup.  
 

You’re now at $4800.  Sell the used Cirkus bearing and subchassis for $200 to get to $4600.  You basically have a Majik LP12 with an Ekos and Lingo for free.  The only thing missing would be the arm cable, but the Ekos might have a rather recent one and they don’t make that huge of a difference. Add a Trampolinn 2  and still be under a Majik price. 
 

If the Ekos checks out as good and the wood plinth is still nice looking, go for it. 
 

 

[Dasher]

Buy a used Majik subchassis from LP12bits or elsewhere on the web for $300.  Pay the extra $1000 for the Karousel kit, which includes new springs and grommets and setup.  
 

You’re now at $4800.  Sell the used Cirkus bearing and subchassis for $200 to get to $4600.  You basically have a Majik LP12 with an Ekos and Lingo for free.  The only thing missing would be the arm cable, but the Ekos might have a rather recent one and they don’t make that huge of a difference. Add a Trampolinn 2  and still be under a Majik price. 
 

If the Ekos checks out as good and the wood plinth is still nice looking, go for it. 
 

This was also the logic behind my thinking. It is easier to make decisions on used ones when based in the UK - as the Ekos can be rebuilt up at Audio Origami without risking transatlantic shipping - and LP12 bits are almost 'next day' parts too. It also depends on how immune one is to upgraditis  -  if not heavily vaccinated against it then the Majik  LP12  is not $4995 at all -  but with a new Majik subchassis, Kore and Lingo service the Ekos LP12 is at the point where upgrades are nice to have but in the land of diminishing returns.

Like Mskaye, I'm waiting to see what Thomas has to say - it's a finely balanced one this and probably depends on an individual's attitude to risk!

 

[Nopiano]

Because I’d like the reassurance of a clean sheet, I’d definitely choose the new Majik.  But if you’ve a good Linn dealer who can help you, then a used model - such as you’ve found - might be tempting.  It’s the new Karousel bearing that tips it for the Majik though. 

 

[Automaticftp]

Thanks all!  I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one somewhat flummoxed!  

I have a sense that people are waiting on ThomasOK to chime in - fair to say?

The used LP12 is from the mid-90s; with a serial number of 95xxx.  So Cirkus would have been fitted from new.  I emailed the owner of the used one with a (I hope reasonable) offer and am waiting to hear back.

 

[sktn77a]

I think that Tom's opinion will be very helpful.  There have been numerous in process "improvements" (that don't rate the "upgrade" status) to the LP12 since the introduction of the Cirkus/Ekos (is it an Ekos 1 or an Ekos 2?) models.  Who knows how level/aligned four 30 year old pieces of wood are?  While a good Ekos 2 is a wonderful arm, I'd have a hard time buying one used, given the delicacy of the bearings and the sensitivity of sound quality to bearing damage/wear/adjustment. 

I'd probably get the Majik with the box subchassis/Karousel and Clearaudio arm (which is a total unknown to me).  First upgrade (down the road) would be a Lingo 4 PS (assuming you can't/won't stump up for a Radikal).  Then you have multiple choices on which you can (hopefully) make informed decisions - subchassis, arm, etc.

Good luck with your deliberations.

(And it would help to put your Wammer and Personal info on your avatar - it can save a lot of guesswork on our part!)

 

[ThomasOK]

All - 

Decided to get back to an LP12 (and vinyl).  I'll spare you all the long story, but am now considering two different LP12s and would appreciate your input.

1.  New Majik LP12 - $4995 USD.

2.  LP12 - Lingo - Cirkus - Ekos - no cartridge (I'd use a old K9, an AT VM95ML, or an OC-9ML).  This is listed at $3500 USD.

I know the new Majik includes the Majik subchassis and Karousel, which is the one thing that makes me hesitate on #2 - adding the Karousel makes #2 $4500 USD.  

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Sorry my reply has taken so long.  I mostly avoid computers on my days off (Sunday and Monday) and yesterday was taken up in dealing with a sick dog (who seems to be on the mend).

Anyway, this is an interesting comparison. At first look I'd be tempted to go for the used LP12, especially with it being a mid-90s table.  This means that it will have the plinth with larger corner braces, which very rarely warp, and the extra stud in the motor corner of the top plate.  So the basics of the top plate, plinth, bolts, etc. will be up to date.  Then I would add a Kore and a Karousel, which would run $2195.  This would boost you up a bit over the new Majik in price but also give you a better motor/power supply, better arm and better subchassis.  The Karousel also comes with replacement springs, grommets and washers and nuts for the suspensions, etc. so all the mechanicals get updated except the motor/power supply. 

However, there are some possible concerns.  If it has a shoebox Lingo 1 it is long in the tooth and would be helped by a full recapping, although it is likely to still function until you are ready to do it.  I and others do this work and I can generally turn them around relatively quickly.  I charge $250 parts and labor plus shipping.  In some ways the arm is of more concern.  From the age I would guess it is an Ekos 1.  A significant percentage of these arms have tracking force dials that don't want to move as the grease they used hardens over time.  Sometimes they can be carefully worked free, other times not.  Also the bearings can fail although this is pretty rare in my experience.  On the plus sides an Ekos 1 is easily superior to the Krane and they can also be sent back to Linn for a rebuild for $600.  You would be responsible only for shipping to and from NY, the shipping to and from Scotland is included in the repair price.  While this is not an actual upgrade to an Ekos 2, it would get Ekos 2 level bearings installed, the tracking force dial re-greased and everything tested to spec.  So it would be close to Ekos 2.  That would be a really nice table and would be all ready for a power supply upgrade should you choose to take it further.  

The big questions really come down to what condition the unit is in know so you know whether you need to put more money into it right away or can upgrade as desired.  Also how you are on new vs. used.  But you would definitely need the Karousel and sub chassis upgrades to bring it to a level of perfromance higher than the new Majik LP12.

 

[Automaticftp]

Thomas - 

Thank you very much for such a comprehensive reply!  I appreciate it.  

I'm fine with used, and am somewhat inclined to go for the mid 90s one.  I worked with Rick at Audio Alternative in Ft. Collins, who is similarly awesome with LP12s, and got to go to the Linn "factory" in Eaglesham - and went through their LP12 build/setup/maintain training in 1996.  So I'm tolerably familiar with older LP12s, and don't mind doing a lot of the work myself.  And it's a great comfort knowing Rick is an hour plus away.  I just don't know how a top-spec LP12 from the 90s would compare with the Majik LP12 today.  I well remember the improvement the Lingo 1 provided - it was remarkable.  And ditto the Cirkus.  And based on correspondence with the owner, I suspect it's been very well taken care of.  

The older one also seems to be a better value (discounting the Adikt cartridge, as the 90s one does not come with a cartridge; I'd probably start with a AT VM95ML or current OC9ML).  If the new Majik were $3995 USD and not $4995 I'd probably go for it - but it is not.  

Back to emailing the 90s owner!

And thank you again - I've been out of LP12s for probably 15 years.  

 

[Automaticftp]

Update - 

I thought I'd close the loop on which LP12.  I wound up with a different one entirely - another SN 93xxx.  Ekos, Valhalla, Cirkus, and a Grado Sonata cartridge.  I'll swap the Valhalla for the Mose/Hercules2 I have, send the arm off to Linn for servicing (a big thank you to @ThomasOK for mentioning Linn's servicing of an Ekos!), and otherwise simply enjoy it.  Springs, belt, grommets, etc., replaced in 2018, so should have some life left in them.  I'm slightly dubious of the Grado; as I've not heard one work as brilliantly in a LP12 as they are supposed to.  

Thank you to everyone!  Will update once it's here and running.  

 

[sktn77a]

You should be good to go with that LP12 (93xxx was early 1997 - mine is the same vintage).  I would say a minimal upgrade (aside from the cartridge) would be a Majik subchassis, if you don't intend megabuck upgrades.  if you do want to go for significant upgrades, a Majik or Kore with a Karousel and a Lingo 4. 

Any higher than that and you're on your own!