Who is using amps/preamps with SMPS power supplies?

[StingRay]

I have always found an improvement when replacing with a linear psu.

An SMPS will always be generating broadband noise, even if not directly audible it has an effect on the microdynamics.

Not always, I tried a LPSU and it was worse, depends on the quality of the SMPS and LPSU. If you are replacing a $5 SMPS with a £300 LPSU then I would expect it to be better. But LPSUs are much larger and can hum. 

What are Teddy Pardo PSUs based on?

 

[StingRay]

Isn’t the usual reason that SMPS can readily cater for international voltages?  (And the OP was about amplifiers)

Size I would have thought is one reason, hum and heat is another, weight and cost also.

 

[rabski]

For manufacturers, SMPS make a lot of sense. Size, cost, weight, efficiency, end-of-life disposal regulations, universal voltage, etc.

As before, it is possible to design and build an electrically 'quiet' SMPS. But it costs.

 

[Tony_J]

I have always found an improvement when replacing with a linear psu.

I have tried substituting LPS for SMPS a couple of times. The first time was replacing my SBT's SMPS with an after-market LPS; the LPS introduced an earth loop as mentioned earlier, so was a total bust in that application. The second time was replacing the standard SMPS on my miniDSP crossover unit with two different regulated LPS units, both of which looked great on the 'scope. Using the optical input to the miniDSP, there was no audible difference that I could detect between the three supplies, but via the RCA inputs, one of the linear supplies introduced an unwanted earth loop, while the other, that had a floating output, didn't.

 

[bigfool1956]

I watched a video from a PSU manufacturer (not hi-fi) about the differences between a linear and switched mode power supply, and which should you choose. Now they were talking about those multi function supplies that look like something from a workshop or a lab, and they sold both formats. I don't recall too much about the specific differences, but the one thing that stuck in my mind from that video was that the guy said the SMPS has a significantly slower rise time than the LPS. My immediate thought was that for hifi, and power amps specifically the faster the rise time the better.

 

[StingRay]

Allo, make both types. The new Nirvana is SMPS and is considerably cheaper than the Shanti. In measurements there is not much difference between them.

If the Nirvana had been available, when I was buying, I may have bought it. May still do if a used one comes available.

My first Shanti I sent it back because of loud hum.

 

[Blzebub]

No recorded or published evidence, why would you want it?

I used to work in a field which was evidence-based, so I'm used to seeing references for statements of fact.

 

[TheFlash]

I note that few if any contributors have actually heard an SMPS vs a LPS powering the same device. Just saying.

As with much in hifi, it really isn't about fixing anything which is broken; we're not talking audible noise (hum, whatever) which distracts from listening. All I can contribute is that in directly comparing the two, I've found LPS to be clearly superior and some LPS to be superior to others. However, I wouldn't generalise that to LPS are always better than SMPS. As @hifinutt says, we've done this to death recently.

I am also very happy to have Rega SMPS in my system. Never compared those with anything else but I suspect they're among the quietest, as apparently are those in Benchmark DACs.

I find comments like that of @Warszawa extremely unhelpful. There is a marketing agenda in almost every aspect of this hobby, but to suggest the LPS thing is mainly or wholly about marketing feels disingenuous.

 

[StingRay]

I note that few if any contributors have actually heard an SMPS vs a LPS powering the same device. Just saying.

Not so sure about that, many Bluesound Node users who changed to LPSU, will have heard the same device, although there may have been a gap of around 20 minutes or so. As I said one was worse and one was better. But what is the cost of a Bluesound SMPS? 

I may try and test the Allo Nirvana v Shanti, that will be  a quick switch over.

 

[Nopiano]

The OP was about amplifiers, but it’s usually sources and DACs that have interchangeable power supplies.  I can’t think off the top of my head of any amps where this is possible.  At least not without major surgery and trashing the trade-in value.

 

[hifinutt]

lots of amps have interchangeble power supplies , bel canto , naim , teddy pardoe . its marvellous to be able to upgrade in this way and can make a huge difference 

one of the psu i enjoy was made by a contributor to this thread and is linear i believe 

 

[StingRay]

lots of amps have interchangeble power supplies , bel canto , naim , teddy pardoe . its marvellous to be able to upgrade in this way and can make a huge difference 

one of the psu i enjoy was made by a contributor to this thread and is linear i believe 

But are they swapping SMPS and LPSU?

 

[hifinutt]

yes i have swopped from a vbs1 [ smps ] to a linear 

 

[Nopiano]

lots of amps have interchangeble power supplies , bel canto , naim , teddy pardoe . its marvellous to be able to upgrade in this way and can make a huge difference 

one of the psu i enjoy was made by a contributor to this thread and is linear i believe 

Yes, I thought of Naim but they’re wedded to linear designs, surely?  Ever more costly, but not with a choice of switched?

 I admit I’m not familiar with Bel Canto.

And Teddy Pardoe I thought made the power supplies, not amps?

 

[Nopiano]

lots of amps have interchangeble power supplies , bel canto , naim , teddy pardoe . its marvellous to be able to upgrade in this way and can make a huge difference 

one of the psu i enjoy was made by a contributor to this thread and is linear i believe 

Yes, I thought of Naim but they’re wedded to linear designs, surely?  Ever more costly, but not with a choice of switched?

 I admit I’m not familiar with Bel Canto.

And Teddy Pardoe I thought made the power supplies, not amps?

 

[hifinutt]

yes they used to make power amps etc . think its more power supplies now 

 https://6moons.com/audioreviews2/teddypardo/1.html

very popular on some forums like pfm who like naim stuff 

 

[Warszawa]

I find comments like that of @Warszawa extremely unhelpful. There is a marketing agenda in almost every aspect of this hobby, but to suggest the LPS thing is mainly or wholly about marketing feels disingenuous.

The point I was trying to make is that nobody should have their audiophile nervosa triggered just because there's a buzz around these various aftermarket LPSUs on Hi-Fi forums. Of course many cheap SMPS can be improved upon, but many are carefully designed and implemented, even chosen over LPSU for their performance.

The way Hi-fi manufacturers latch on to these trends in quite admirable.

2018: Someone on a Hi-fi forum claims a particular model of network switch has improved their sound quality

2021: Innuos release £2500 network switch.

The audiophile butterfly effect. 

 

[zeta4]

Smps have a potential sonic advantage for audio use over linear supplies ( in one application at least) in their lack of low frequency noise ie hum. Valve designs particularly zero global feedback ones seem to benefit from this, at least in my experience. Ive built valve headphone amps and phono stages using smps for the heaters and  HT which show no sign of LF noise on a noise plot unlike linear supplies, nor any downband modulation into the audio band from the switching noise.  This is with only a simple noise filter.  I think they sound better than my linear supply versions particularly in the bass with no added harshness etc . A power amp is next but not an 845 ! 

 

[TheFlash]

The point I was trying to make is that nobody should have their audiophile nervosa triggered just because there's a buzz around these various aftermarket LPSUs on Hi-Fi forums. Of course many cheap SMPS can be improved upon, but many are carefully designed and implemented, even chosen over LPSU for their performance.

The way Hi-fi manufacturers latch on to these trends in quite admirable.

2018: Someone on a Hi-fi forum claims a particular model of network switch has improved their sound quality

2021: Innuos release £2500 network switch.

The audiophile butterfly effect. 

Sorry, I responded between work calls and didn't mean to be quite so direct.

You make a good point, and of course marketing and A.Nervosa are great bedfellows.

But your mention of network switches reinforces my point, I'm afraid. IMHO you actually weaken it by wrapping in something which is clearly close to Pure Foo (I'm being gentle and polite for the believers): I suspect that a massive (100% perhaps!) influencing factor in the interest in "audiophile" network switches is marketing-led. As is much, though not all, of the cable market. But LPSU's are genuinely different (sweeping generalisation, caveats apply, etc); I've heard power supplies make a clearly audible difference to the Node and to one of the cheaper Chord DACs, that's it. But that is no marketing mirage. In fact, most of the aftermarket LPSU's are probably manufactured by one-man-band outfits, sold by word of mouth, with precious little spent on clever branding and marketing.

Have you heard well-made LPSU vs well-made SMPS on anything? If so, what? I would urge those who fight the corner of SMPS in general to do so. No-one is promising a revelation here, but others have been surprised by what should, in theory, not make anything like the difference it does. I'm talking digital front-ends here, not amps, so may well be off-topic.

 

[TheFlash]

Smps have a potential sonic advantage for audio use over linear supplies ( in one application at least) in their lack of low frequency noise ie hum. Valve designs particularly zero global feedback ones seem to benefit from this, at least in my experience. Ive built valve headphone amps and phono stages using smps for the heaters and  HT which show no sign of LF noise on a noise plot unlike linear supplies, nor any downband modulation into the audio band from the switching noise.  This is with only a simple noise filter.  I think they sound better than my linear supply versions particularly in the bass with no added harshness etc . A power amp is next but not an 845 ! 

They do indeed. And you speak from specific experience rather then quasi-religious dogma. Bravo, sir!