Hotel California - The Shaker test .

[oldius]

It’s not hard to understand this thread, why do people have to be sarcastic about something that may actually have use to someone.

It's a great thread but we can have a laugh too - I haven't seen anything meant to upset anyone.

 

[TIU]

Where would the wigwam be without unnecessary, sarcastic and smart arse posts?

 

[tackleberry]

There are ways of having a laugh, would be nice to be constructively.

 

[oldius]

There are ways of having a laugh, would be nice to be constructively.

As I said, I think it's a great thread but the thought of hundreds of audiophiles in pursuit of a shaker in the left speaker on a fifty-year-old track is very amusing, to me, and the stuff of ridicule among non-audiophiles. I think it's funny but I say that with no intention of upsetting anyone.

 

[Jezzer]

I’ve got to find the video but I recall watching a speaker review on YouTube and the chap said something about being able to hear ‘Diana Krall’s saliva’ or words to that effect. Is that good? Or is that just a bit weird..?

 

[tackleberry]

Tori Amos is a good one for that

 

[Bazzer]

They put the shaker in to distinguish it from Tull's "We Used To Know "

 

[Three sheds]

Personally I find it quite amusing that what appears to be the obvious original point of this thread has been lost in the mists of time, but that doesn't seem to hinder the ongoing chat

 

[Bazzer]

Personally I find it quite amusing that what appears to be the obvious original point of this thread has been lost in the mists of time, but that doesn't seem to hinder the ongoing chat

Welcome to The Wam

 

[TIU]

There are ways of having a laugh, would be nice to be constructively.

What does a constructive laugh sound like?

 

[PeteVid]

As the originator of this thread (I’m sorry) I was asking the question why was the shaker/rattlesnake seemingly more audible on a radio broadcast than from a cd/vinyl/streaming source in a Hi-Fi set up. I think most would have predicted it would have been the other way round.

I think it’s been reported that the shaker is audible on most sources but not as much as on the radio tx, some reported not being able to hear it much or even at all whilst others claimed not to care whether or not they could hear it.

IMO if the shaker is on the recording and my hearing is good enough to hear it I would hope my system is good enough to resolve it. If it’s not then it would bring into question the technical ability/quality of my set up, could the lack of the shaker be an indication of a deficiency or fault somewhere in it. Some have said that this would not bother them, presumably even though they’ve invested handsomely in what they would consider to be a great Hi-Fi. But if a system couldn’t audibly play back the shaker, what other, instruments/ frequency range/ detail might be lacking in other recordings they like to listen to. Eg you can hear the maracas in Gimme shelter but there is another percussive instrument in there too, can you hear that or may be you are not bothered ? How as a Hi-Fi ‘buff’ can you not be bothered?

 

[tackleberry]

What does a constructive laugh sound like?

You wouldn’t like my response

 

[tackleberry]

As the originator of this thread (I’m sorry) I was asking the question why was the shaker/rattlesnake seemingly more audible on a radio broadcast than from a cd/vinyl/streaming source in a Hi-Fi set up. I think most would have predicted it would have been the other way round.

I think it’s been reported that the shaker is audible on most sources but not as much as on the radio tx, some reported not being able to hear it much or even at all whilst others claimed not to care whether or not they could hear it.

IMO if the shaker is on the recording and my hearing is good enough to hear it I would hope my system is good enough to resolve it. If it’s not then it would bring into question the technical ability/quality of my set up, could the lack of the shaker be an indication of a deficiency or fault somewhere in it. Some have said that this would not bother them, presumably even though they’ve invested handsomely in what they would consider to be a great Hi-Fi. But if a system couldn’t audibly play back the shaker, what other, instruments/ frequency range/ detail might be lacking in other recordings they like to listen to. Eg you can hear the maracas in Gimme shelter but there is another percussive instrument in there too, can you hear that or may be you are not bothered ? How as a Hi-Fi ‘buff’ can you not be bothered?

I’m really surprised to read posts from senior wammers/mods poking at this as some kind of joke. I’ve read a lot worse.

 

[Colinjg]

Did Schrodinger have a Rattlesnake??

 

[CnoEvil]

Did Schrodinger have a Rattlesnake??

No, I believe he had a shaker, that's not a shaker.

 

[Paul55]

As the originator of this thread (I’m sorry) I was asking the question why was the shaker/rattlesnake seemingly more audible on a radio broadcast than from a cd/vinyl/streaming source in a Hi-Fi set up. I think most would have predicted it would have been the other way round.

I think it’s been reported that the shaker is audible on most sources but not as much as on the radio tx, some reported not being able to hear it much or even at all whilst others claimed not to care whether or not they could hear it.

IMO if the shaker is on the recording and my hearing is good enough to hear it I would hope my system is good enough to resolve it. If it’s not then it would bring into question the technical ability/quality of my set up, could the lack of the shaker be an indication of a deficiency or fault somewhere in it. Some have said that this would not bother them, presumably even though they’ve invested handsomely in what they would consider to be a great Hi-Fi. But if a system couldn’t audibly play back the shaker, what other, instruments/ frequency range/ detail might be lacking in other recordings they like to listen to. Eg you can hear the maracas in Gimme shelter but there is another percussive instrument in there too, can you hear that or may be you are not bothered ? How as a Hi-Fi ‘buff’ can you not be bothered?

I think that, because the intro to this track is very quiet, different compressors interact with it in different ways. So the 2021 remaster suppresses it (on YouTube) but earlier masterings, less so. The BBC, as all radio broadcasters, have a system on their output which normalises and squashes and punches up the audio. Radio 2 do this, but quite well, Radio 3 minimise it, commercial radio might be a lot more aggressive and unpleasant. I don't know what the BBC use nowadays, in ancient times the Engineering Department would produce a module that would site in the basement of Broadcasting House. Nowadays perhaps Google Optimod.

Anyway it's entirely possible that the broadcaster starts with a good mix, then lifts the quiet sections a bit, and possibly equalises them, all automatically. And the consequence is a more prominent rattlesnake.

And there's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm not going to get it out.

 

[Tony_J]

I think that, because the intro to this track is very quiet, different compressors interact with it in different ways. So the 2021 remaster suppresses it (on YouTube) but earlier masterings, less so.

I've just listened to the 2021 remaster on my OnePlus phone, through the built-in speaker, using the worst res streaming source I could think of (Amazon sounds standard res, so your basic MP3) and the rattlesnake in the intro is clear as a bell.

 

[TIU]

And there's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm not going to get it out.

Said the bishop to the actress.

 

[rabski]

I’m really surprised to read posts from senior wammers/mods poking at this as some kind of joke. I’ve read a lot worse.

People are taking it lightheartedly. We are, to an extent, laughing at ourselves. However, I have to point out the saying that so often comes to mind here: it's only a bloody stereo.

I am extremely fussy about my system, especially the stuff I build. Nevertheless, there is something a touch obsessive about the idea of listening to a piece of music you don't like in order to see whether you can hear something. This is the sort of thing that anyone outside the 'hobby' would be seriously shaking their head about.

 

[kernow]

shakergate 2022