Balanced amps

[Non-Smoking Man]

Who makes balanced amps in domestic audio? In particular are there any balanced valve amp manufacturers (besides BAT)?

 

[vacdac]

Who makes balanced amps in domestic audio? In particular are there any balanced valve amp manufacturers (besides BAT)?

I think you need to be more specific just re valve amps perhaps Jack.

Certainly in the S/S arena there seem to be plenty of mfrs making true fully balanced designs. Certainly M.F. for their current M6 series Pre/Powers...think the integrated is also a fully balanced design too as is my own A1 fbp pre as well. My XTZ AP100 power amp is also a fully balanced amp & I could prolly roll out a good few more of t' top of my head, if we're talking S/S.

I think Projects new Pre-Box RS valve pre-amplifier is also a fully balanced design.....although this does seem rarer for valve amps in general. I understand Project may also have a fully balanced Valve phono stage soon to be rolled out.

BR

C.

 

[i_should_coco]

What do you mean by 'balanced'? Balanced in? Balanced out? Both? Balanced circuitry (why would you care?).

 

[Diapason]

My last few amps have had balanced inputs (and outputs where applicable), right up to the GRAAFs. I haven't come across many balanced valve amps, admittedly.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Excluding BAT, the only other notable valve amp manufacturer that I can think of with balanced amps in their range are from McIntosh. Have to say, I really enjoyed the Mac stuff I've heard.

 

[stevied]

try AUDIOVALVE

 

[sjs]

Many of the top range Audio Note UK have balanced inputs and/or outputs, generally using transformer coupling. They do not have balanced circuitry.

You will need deep pockets mind ! :shock:

Several of the Hagerman phono stages make a big fuss about fully balanced circuits, but then have single ended inputs and outputs :roll:

Puresound L300 has a balanced output avaialble from the transformers, and some of the Graaf stuff has balanced inputs and outputs.

I am with Coco on this though, why would you care?

 

[i_should_coco]

I am with Coco on this though, why would you care?

I was specifically meaning the circuitry, I can see why you might want balanced inputs/outputs, e.g. if interfacing with pro equipment...

 

[Tenson]

I've heard this term a few times and not been sure what it means. Most amps are push-pull and are basically balanced circuitry after the phase splitter regardless of the input connection. I don't see a problem with summing a differential input conditioning it and then splitting it in the amp circuit a little later.

Balanced phono stage that keeps it balanced throughout makes some sense because of the massive gain going on and the natural floating nature of a cartridge.

Anyway, I can recommend the Alesis RA500

 

[sjs]

I was specifically meaning the circuitry, I can see why you might want balanced inputs/outputs, e.g. if interfacing with pro equipment...

OP asked about domestic audio, so I wouldn't even bother with you clarification

Proponents of balanced circuits go on about superior CMRR as if its a free lunch and the circuits are absolutely perfectly balanced :dunno:

Personally, only in the case of an MC cart into the primary of a SUT can I absolutely say that a floating balanced connection is of definite worthwhile benefit, once the secondary goes into an active stage then all bets are off, and balanced has no intrinsic benefits over SE given the complexity involved in real world solutions.

 

[i_should_coco]

OP asked about domestic audio, so I wouldn't even bother with you clarification Proponents of balanced circuits go on about superior CMRR as if its a free lunch and the circuits are absolutely perfectly balanced :dunno:

Personally, only in the case of an MC cart into the primary of a SUT can I absolutely say that a floating balanced connection is of definite worthwhile benefit, once the secondary goes into an active stage then all bets are off, and balanced has no intrinsic benefits over SE given the complexity involved in real world solutions.

Ah, but I know Jack like pro equipment and wondered....

Agreed completely with the rest!

 

[sjs]

Ah, but I know Jack like pro equipment and wondered....

Makes sense

 

[i_should_coco]

That reminds me, I did get Slagle to wind me the last step-ups properly balanced. Just need to change the plugs on the arm and trafo.

 

[Non-Smoking Man]

Noise is the problem and we are having difficulty eradicating it.

(Balanced equipment suffers less from it, as we all know.)

More specifically, as Pete knows, I am using pro audio electronic xovers (Ashly) (balanced) into domestic amps (unbalanced)(well 4 are unbalanced, the sub is pro audio).

Continued failure to solve the problem has me turning to the idea of swapping out amps that are suffering for balanced designs as alternatives. Hence the question the purpose of which is to assess my chances of doing this and using valve amps which I favour.

Latest move is to get hold of some Canare L-77s which is much better shielded than the Cat 6 presently installed

Im also running a thread on Speakerplans Forum seeing what the other side of the fence has to offer.

One option is that of in line isolation transformers. I'm looking at this at the moment.

No, I dont really know what is meant by 'balanced' but I know that the screen doesnt have to do 2 jobs, the return signal and screening, and if you have a third wire that does the return and cancels out the nasties that promote noise. Or something.

 

[Tenson]

What sort of noise?

 

[sjs]

Noise is the problem and we are having difficulty eradicating it.(Balanced equipment suffers less from it, as we all know.)

More specifically, as Pete knows, I am using pro audio electronic xovers (Ashly) (balanced) into domestic amps (unbalanced)(well 4 are unbalanced, the sub is pro audio).

Continued failure to solve the problem has me turning to the idea of swapping out amps that are suffering for balanced designs as alternatives. Hence the question the purpose of which is to assess my chances of doing this and using valve amps which I favour.

Latest move is to get hold of some Canare L-77s which is much better shielded than the Cat 6 presently installed

Im also running a thread on Speakerplans Forum seeing what the other side of the fence has to offer.

One option is that of in line isolation transformers. I'm looking at this at the moment.

No, I dont really know what is meant by 'balanced' but I know that the screen doesnt have to do 2 jobs, the return signal and screening, and if you have a third wire that does the return and cancels out the nasties that promote noise. Or something.

ok, much more info, helps much clearer understanding.......

much pro gear is not necessarily designed with the super low noise floors often considered mandatory of domestic gear. It often also operates at higher signal levels than domestic gear, so it could be that your Xovers introduce a degree of noise, and your power amps are much higher input sensitivity than typical in pro gear. You then sit closer to the speakers, expecting lower background..... it may not be all due to cables at all, but who knows without the details.

A lot of PA rigs have a level of hash and hum which are fine in a PA situation, but totally unacceptable in a domestic situation.

this may, or may not, be relevant to your situation as I don't know the details, but I have encountered this on a number of occasions in the past, most recently in an oligarch's swimming pool where the general hash coming from the ceiling mounted speakers was ruining his enjoyment.....shame

best of luck

 

[68rednose]

Audio Research LS 25, 26, 27, Ref's 2, 3, 5, Aesthetix Calypso/Janus, Modwright LS36.5, LS 100, Graaf 13.5B, Pathos In Control, VTL 7.5, must have overseen a few others that haven't been mentioned yet.

 

[uncl_nigel]

Aesthetix Atlas although I'm running mine SE - all my kit has a choice of balanced and SE connections. Anyone know if there is any point running balanced if you have no noise problems.

 

[smithy]

I never have any problem with noise with either unbalanced T amps or balanced ones with active crossovers.All the amps currently used (Omniphonics,MC2,Crown K2)are balanced but it didn't seem to make a difference with either an Ashly 2001 or the Behringer .