Bewitch or Icon, which one?

[Papa Lazarou]

I believe Sound Surgery in Exeter, Coherent Systems in Malvern and Definitive Audio in Nottingham all keep a demo unit in stock. It is a truly superb amp imo, i really doubt you can beat it at anything like the price.

 

[The Hifi Gallery]

Just out of curiosity, and I haven't heard either, BUT OK I accept the icon stereo 40 is beaten by the bewitch, for rock etc, did anyone even ask what type of music etc, room size volumes.......but how many of those saying "buy bewitch" have actually heardthe stereo 60? and how many have heard any of them with Opera Callas?

In all honesty if it were me, I'd demo them all, I doubt many of you doing the reccomendations would actually like the Operas, but s200db does, so he may prefer another amp. But I can't think of any reason to be negative from a technical relaibaility POV with any of them.

 

[Biscuit]

of course you should demo first - but do Icon actually sell through dealers?

I guess thats another plus with the A30 tbh - its sold by some of the very best dealers in the country - demo is likely to be a pleasure wherever you go!

I haven't spent enough time with the Bewitch to form a proper opinion, but from what little I've heard - it sounded very good indeed.

 

[Hawk]

Paul,

I own an Icon PS1 and previously had a Stereo 40. Ive also had extensive home dems of the Stereo 60 and the push pull 300b. The Stereo 60 is a heavy well made bit of kit and certainly isnt short of power but at £1400 is quite a bit more than the bewitch. My disappointment was that given the cost to my ears it didnt sound significantly better than the prima luna I had. It does have plenty of drive, but the bewitch to my ears sounded more natural and unconstrained. On busy dynamic passages the 60 sometime lost its way a bit, and whilst the bewitch also has its limits it seemed to be able to hang on a bit longer.

If it was my money, Id take the bewitch and 30 CDs

but thats just my opinion. Demo as you quite rightly point out is the only way for s2000db to know for sure.

Hawk

 

[Hawk]

Biscuit wrote:

of course you should demo first - but do Icon actually sell through dealers?
I guess thats another plus with the A30 tbh - its sold by some of the very best dealers in the country - demo is likely to be a pleasure wherever you go!

I haven't spent enough time with the Bewitch to form a proper opinion, but from what little I've heard - it sounded very good indeed.

Yes. In fact You can hear both the icon and the bewitch at Noteworthy in Aylesbury, which for s2000db is not a million miles from Gerrards Cross. Thats where I bought the PS1.

 

[The Hifi Gallery]

Biscuit wrote:

of course you should demo first - but do Icon actually sell through dealers? I guess thats another plus with the A30 tbh - its sold by some of the very best dealers in the country - demo is likely to be a pleasure wherever you go!

I haven't spent enough time with the Bewitch to form a proper opinion, but from what little I've heard - it sounded very good indeed.

Icon is sold through dealers biccy, and I betthe bewitch is a wee cracker, but folks have reccomended it without asking what floats the original posters boat, some folk don't like bass, (look at how popular ls3/5a's are), we reccomend different products for different tastes, we are all different in our perception of what we think we want, I have demoed say 2 products, I think product A is sweeter, better balanced, whilst Product B is harsher, and less musical, meanwhile customer thinks the opposite, it's a sticky line recomending solely what we like, as each listeners wants are often so different.

FWIW reading the reviews and praise I guess I would probably prefer the Bewitch myself, but then I wouldn't choose Opera Callas speakers, yet 2000db obviously likes them, if you get my drift.

 

[Biscuit]

I stand happily corrected then

 

[Hawk]

Paul wrote:

Biscuit wrote:

of course you should demo first - but do Icon actually sell through dealers? I guess thats another plus with the A30 tbh - its sold by some of the very best dealers in the country - demo is likely to be a pleasure wherever you go!

I haven't spent enough time with the Bewitch to form a proper opinion, but from what little I've heard - it sounded very good indeed.

Icon is sold through dealers biccy, and I betthe bewitch is a wee cracker, but folks have reccomended it without asking what floats the original posters boat, some folk don't like bass, (look at how popular ls3/5a's are), we reccomend different products for different tastes, we are all different in our perception of what we think we want, I have demoed say 2 products, I think product A is sweeter, better balanced, whilst Product B is harsher, and less musical, meanwhile customer thinks the opposite, it's a sticky line recomending solely what we like, as each listeners wants are often so different.

FWIW reading the reviews and praise I guess I would probably prefer the Bewitch myself, but then I wouldn't choose Opera Callas speakers, yet 2000db obviously likes them, if you get my drift.

Its a fair point you make Paul, but at the end of the day we are not dealers and are far from being experts so all we can do it give an honest account of how any bit of kit makes us feel. I think thats the point that people should understand when reading forums. Any of the comments here can never be a substitute for going and listening with your own ears.

 

[The Hifi Gallery]

Neil, I wasn't being smart, and yes I have no doubt that the Bewitch is a cracker, just suggesting things from a different perspective, the original question was "apart form listening are there any techinical reasons why I should choose A, B or C"

Some reckon dealers are only here to sell stuff, but we can be useful too, for a different perspective on things, a lot of times folks recomend or sleight a product or products they have heard briefly, living with something can be a lot different, look at the NOS dac hype, and the T amp, how many jumped on the bandwagon, and regretted it. Of course the Bewitch is no doubt better than those two, but I too fell ionto the trap of reccomending stuff I liked, yet others didn't, but since becoming a dealer the biggest learning curve has been trying to understand the needs of the individual, hence why I now won't sleight a product on taste grounds, as thats subjective, we can only really comment on wether a product is good or bad technically, ie is it unreliable, if we reccomend after probing for the customer needs, and we know what traits a product has, then we may find ourselves reccomending kit that we wouldn't necessarily choose ourselves.

Perhaps better to say I liked it because... and I like ABC so if you like them chances are this will knock your socks off, or perhaps not comment at all, ?

 

[The Hifi Gallery]

Hawk wrote:

Paul,

I own an Icon PS1 and previously had a Stereo 40. Ive also had extensive home dems of the Stereo 60 and the push pull 300b. The Stereo 60 is a heavy well made bit of kit and certainly isnt short of power but at £1400 is quite a bit more than the bewitch. My disappointment was that given the cost to my ears it didnt sound significantly better than the prima luna I had. It does have plenty of drive, but the bewitch to my ears sounded more natural and unconstrained. On busy dynamic passages the 60 sometime lost its way a bit, and whilst the bewitch also has its limits it seemed to be able to hang on a bit longer.

If it was my money, Id take the bewitch and 30 CDs

but thats just my opinion. Demo as you quite rightly point out is the only way for s2000db to know for sure.

Hawk

Now thats about a perfect a post on why you prefer one over the other, top man, and in context, I also think your recco, for Noteworthy is a great idea.

 

[s2000db]

Paul wrote:

Biscuit wrote:

of course you should demo first - but do Icon actually sell through dealers? I guess thats another plus with the A30 tbh - its sold by some of the very best dealers in the country - demo is likely to be a pleasure wherever you go!

I haven't spent enough time with the Bewitch to form a proper opinion, but from what little I've heard - it sounded very good indeed.

Icon is sold through dealers biccy, and I betthe bewitch is a wee cracker, but folks have recommended it without asking what floats the original posters boat, some folk don't like bass, (look at how popular ls3/5a's are), we reccomend different products for different tastes, we are all different in our perception of what we think we want, I have demoed say 2 products, I think product A is sweeter, better balanced, whilst Product B is harsher, and less musical, meanwhile customer thinks the opposite, it's a sticky line recomending solely what we like, as each listeners wants are often so different.

FWIW reading the reviews and praise I guess I would probably prefer the Bewitch myself, but then I wouldn't choose Opera Callas speakers, yet 2000db obviously likes them, if you get my drift.

Thanks for the input and insight,will get myself down to Noteworthy for a demo over the next few weeks - looks like they sell quite a few valve amps so will be an interesting exercise.... and Christmas is coming!!

Regarding my speaker choice (takes defensive stance), have a look at my newbie intro (pg49) to see where I'm coming from, during my selection process, I auditioned just about everything that's been recommended, Proac, PMC, Spendor, MA, Triangle, B&W, these are just the ones I can remember, really liked the Sonus Fabers (great sense of occasion + cost!), but ended on the Opera's, they just had that edge to my ears. Anyway a bit of a contrast to my old troopers

 

[The Hifi Gallery]

s2000db wrote:

Regarding my speaker choice (takes defensive stance), have a look at my newbie intro (pg49) to see where I'm coming from, during my selection process, I auditioned just about everything that's been recommended, Proac, PMC, Spendor, MA, Triangle, B&W, these are just the ones I can remember, really liked the Sonus Fabers (great sense of occasion + cost!), but ended on the Opera's, they just had that edge to my ears. Anyway a bit of a contrast to my old troopers

No Need for being defensive, speakers are the most personal choice in hifi, they aren't bad by any means, just that those doing the reccomendations, and me, would most likely have chosen something different, we should buy what we like, never mind what others say.

 

[subterranean-alien]

My major concern with the latest Icon's is the output rating. To achieve what they claim they must be pushing the KT88's and 300B's too the limit, I certainly wouldnt drive valves that hard.

 

[s2000db]

subterranean-alien wrote:

My major concern with the latest Icon's is the output rating. To achieve what they claim they must be pushing the KT88's and 300B's too the limit, I certainly wouldnt drive valves that hard.

Excuse my ignorance here, but is this an issue at all volume levels, or just at or near max power. I presume that this must shorten the valves life by somewhat?

 

[murray johnson]

Its possible to get 100W out of a pair of KT88's if you run them lean enough.Its just a question where the biasing puts the operating point of the valves.

In Class A, 30-35 Watts is more typical and perhaps 18-20 Watts for PP 300B's

 

[subterranean-alien]

As murray says there optimum opertaing point on all valves. Run them too hard (high plate dissapation) or too low (lower plate etc) and you'll shorten the valve life. The sound will also be different depending on operation of the valve. A general rule is 70% of the max dissapation, ie an EL34 in general has a max of 500V so you'd biad too 350V.

Maybe Icon have a way of maintaing the high-output but I certainly would be very wary indeed.

 

[s2000db]

Many thanks for your comments and information