Logan wrote:
For example.... The DG Kleiber Brahms 4th from early 1980's, legendary performance but has always suffered from a somewhat flattish steely hard sound quality. Doesn't prevent it from being the top choice in this piece of music.
About a year later DG were back in the same venue with the same orchestra in the same symphony but this time with Leonard Bernstein, and again a live recording. This is a tremendous recording (at least it is on vinyl) very open and rich and all the colours and textures present, which on the Kleiber recording are somewhat bleached out. Unfortunately its not as compelling a performance, a bit mannered by Lenny but definitely one I want to have in the collection.
This raises the question, how does the Kleiber performance sound on vinyl? Anyone know? having recently got into vinyl and bought lots of 2nd hand 1960s and 70s recording, I am fairly sure that a lot of the problem is down to rotten remastering in the CD transfers. Some of the vinyl recordings from 1960s sound amazing, better than SACD. I've got some of Maazel's 1960s VPO Sibelius recordings on both vinyl and CD and the vinyl is vastly superior.
To support this, a lot of the best SACDs are remasters of 1950s and 1960s analogue recordings and they reveal the superb engineering and quality that was being practised in those days.
Also I don't necessarily buy the theory that early digital recordings (from early 1980s) are always rubbish.... I can think of quite a few that are still excellent by today's standards: Dutoit's Daphnis et Chloe on Decca, Maazel's VPO Mahler on CBS/Sony and several more.
Last night I listened to Karajan's essential 1966 recording of Shostakovich's 10th, the only one he recorded by that composer. Its one of the dozen or so recordings (among thehundreds)by Karajan that are fully worthy of his status,butI'm not much of a Karajan fan. Its a great recording, even better on Speakers Corner 180g vinyl than on the mid-price CD. There's not much wrong with Karajan's Parsifal from 1980ish, and the sound on the 1983 live Mahler 9th is excellent.... a little close and hard on the violins maybe but one of the few recordings of this piece that really lets you hear what's going on.
I haven't heard as many bad recordings from DG in recent years as Solid claims, and can think of a few stunners, they always seem to pull out the stops for Sinopoli and Abbado. But I still think there is a lack of consistency, especially compared to small independent labels like BIS and Hyperion. I've never heard a less than superb recording from BIS.
The label I would single out form most citicism is EMI, can't remember the last half decent recording I had from them... to the extent I now avoid their releases. The recordings they have done with Rattle in Berlin are particularly bad.
I wouldn't be too hard on old DG. I don't think they are any worse than any of the other major labels - Decca, Philips, EMI or CBS (now Sony). All of them have their fair share of Stinkers and Stonkers so to speak. The thing that is consistent about all of them is the inconsistency!solidstateman wrote:Agreed. I read somewhere that in his later years Karajan never listened to the results of his efforts and left it to the DG engineers to produce whatever they liked, for better or worst. I once wondered whether the Philharmonie venue in Berlin was the culprit (compare the sonics of the 1962 and the stodgy 1978 Beethoven symphony cycles), but other conductors/producers/engineers have generated acceptable sound from there under both studio and live concert conditions on labels other than DG.DG has consistently produced some of the worst-sounding orchestral recordings.
In my survey of my rejuvenated "reject bin" of 1950s LPs I came across a Karajan Beethoven 7 with the original Legge Philharmonia (Columbia mono) which I thought was wonderful at the time. I would think that - it was the only7th I'd heard at that stage. In theintervening yearsI've heard about 20 other versions so only now can I make a valid comparison. And the Karajan/Philharmonia is still I think the best in sonics and performance. The orchestration has not been more skilfully revealed nor the rhythms better conveyed than here. The delicacy, energy,and lightness of touch arematched in his stereo Falstaff and Rosenkavalier from the same period.
Or did Karajan suffer from hearing loss in his later years? If he did he wouldn't be the first orchestral musician so afflicted - the condition is not exclusive to elderly (i.e. over 25) rock performers and their outrageous amplfiers. Gramophone reviewers for instance have been ignoring (orunaccountably praising) grossly unacceptable sonics for years. They can't all be deaf or listening to review material on their car tape decks.
For example.... The DG Kleiber Brahms 4th from early 1980's, legendary performance but has always suffered from a somewhat flattish steely hard sound quality. Doesn't prevent it from being the top choice in this piece of music.
About a year later DG were back in the same venue with the same orchestra in the same symphony but this time with Leonard Bernstein, and again a live recording. This is a tremendous recording (at least it is on vinyl) very open and rich and all the colours and textures present, which on the Kleiber recording are somewhat bleached out. Unfortunately its not as compelling a performance, a bit mannered by Lenny but definitely one I want to have in the collection.
This raises the question, how does the Kleiber performance sound on vinyl? Anyone know? having recently got into vinyl and bought lots of 2nd hand 1960s and 70s recording, I am fairly sure that a lot of the problem is down to rotten remastering in the CD transfers. Some of the vinyl recordings from 1960s sound amazing, better than SACD. I've got some of Maazel's 1960s VPO Sibelius recordings on both vinyl and CD and the vinyl is vastly superior.
To support this, a lot of the best SACDs are remasters of 1950s and 1960s analogue recordings and they reveal the superb engineering and quality that was being practised in those days.
Also I don't necessarily buy the theory that early digital recordings (from early 1980s) are always rubbish.... I can think of quite a few that are still excellent by today's standards: Dutoit's Daphnis et Chloe on Decca, Maazel's VPO Mahler on CBS/Sony and several more.
Last night I listened to Karajan's essential 1966 recording of Shostakovich's 10th, the only one he recorded by that composer. Its one of the dozen or so recordings (among thehundreds)by Karajan that are fully worthy of his status,butI'm not much of a Karajan fan. Its a great recording, even better on Speakers Corner 180g vinyl than on the mid-price CD. There's not much wrong with Karajan's Parsifal from 1980ish, and the sound on the 1983 live Mahler 9th is excellent.... a little close and hard on the violins maybe but one of the few recordings of this piece that really lets you hear what's going on.
I haven't heard as many bad recordings from DG in recent years as Solid claims, and can think of a few stunners, they always seem to pull out the stops for Sinopoli and Abbado. But I still think there is a lack of consistency, especially compared to small independent labels like BIS and Hyperion. I've never heard a less than superb recording from BIS.
The label I would single out form most citicism is EMI, can't remember the last half decent recording I had from them... to the extent I now avoid their releases. The recordings they have done with Rattle in Berlin are particularly bad.