Floor Standing Speakers vs Stand Mount

[hearhere]

@sailor and @StingRay...no offense meant sirs...but please try listening to a big cabinet with big drivers. It is not just about the bass, it is about the acoustic energy that the drivers throw out. I like to call it as scale... the acoustic throw of a speaker. My system is in my small room, very well treated, more than most domestic rooms are...especially in the bass. And when I listen to it in my kitchen , which is 30 feet away, there is no difference in sound volume, either in my small music room or the kitchen 30 feet away. Everything sounds just as loud, and just as clear. That is scale....The ability to maintain that sound pressure levels over a larger distance. And big drivers in big cabinets achieve this easily....

You know how shops often play "musac" that invariably sounds dreadful and never realistic? Well on my first trip to the US, I visited a New York book shop and was immediately convinced that there was a live piano player playing a real piano at the top of the escalator. I ventured up to find, sadly, no piano or pianist - but a big speaker playing Philip Glass's mesmerising Solo Piano, the first time I'd heard this album. This could NEVER have been achieved by a standmount speaker. I'd add Authority to your description of Scale that only a big speaker can deliver, even when playing at modest volume as the piano/ speaker in the NY book shop was playing.

 

[MartinC]

Yes to point 1. though similar performance from a standmount plus subs is likely to be equally costly.

It really isn't though. A significant argument in favour of subwoofers really is that it's generally a MUCH cheaper way to get a full range sound. At full RRP my sub could add sub 20 Hz bass extension to any standmounts for £1500, and there are cheaper ways to get to 20 Hz. I'm not sure what the cheapest full range floor standing speaker might be I suppose but I can't think of anything super-affordable right now.

No to point 2. Large speakers often have higher sensitivity compared with small one. My big speakers are 107 dB and need a handful of watts to upset the neighbours,

That's a good point re. sensitivity, although this will vary significantly between speakers. Full range speakers aren't necessarily very high sensitivity like yours.

 

[hearhere]

That's a good point re. sensitivity, although this will vary significantly between speakers. Full range speakers aren't necessarily very high sensitivity like yours.

Not necessarily, but they very often are, even when comparing conventional box speakers. Mine are super-sensitive horns where an amp such as Art Audio's exceptional PX-25 with just 6 watts will fill the room with the sort of goose-bump inducing sound I've never heard from even the best standmounts.

 

[hiesteem]

Phew this thread makes me grateful for what I have and just enjoy the music

 

[pmcuk]

Looks like you get very different replies depending on how much deep bass you want out of your speakers.

in my case I'm happy with 3db down at 45Hz, even 50-55Hz in a sealed box.

 

[rdale]

Not necessarily, but they very often are, even when comparing conventional box speakers. Mine are super-sensitive horns where an amp such as Art Audio's exceptional PX-25 with just 6 watts will fill the room with the sort of goose-bump inducing sound I've never heard from even the best standmounts.

But haven’t they got active bass units, which puts them more in the category of ‘speakers with subs as stands which cost a lot of money’?

I might come along and say my active streaming stand mounted KEF system with active subs, plus as least as much again for acoustic treatment for a large room, is the most cost effective system (less than £15k all in). But it clearly isn’t state of the art and can’t be compared with a very nice Avant Garde system costing five or ten times more, although this thread seems to want to do that.

 

[jobseeker]

I want to try a pair of these Audio Solutions Figaro 2 XL in my 12 m2 room

 

[hiesteem]

I want to try a pair of these Audio Solutions Figaro 2 XL in my 12 m2 room

Why not add on an extension out the back of the speaker and move in

 

[hiesteem]

But haven’t they got active bass units, which puts them more in the category of ‘speakers with subs as stands which cost a lot of money’?

I might come along and say my active streaming stand mounted KEF system with active subs, plus as least as much again for acoustic treatment for a large room, is the most cost effective system (less than £15k all in). But it clearly isn’t state of the art and can’t be compared with a very nice Avant Garde system costing five or ten times more, although this thread seems to want to do that.

It does sound like a great idea that you have devised though. Of course there are so many variables and the room/floor system is always our own unique experience.

 

[tuga]

I might come along and say my active streaming stand mounted KEF system with active subs, plus as least as much again for acoustic treatment for a large room, is the most cost effective system (less than £15k all in). But it clearly isn’t state of the art and can’t be compared with a very nice Avant Garde system costing five or ten times more, although this thread seems to want to do that.

It does sound like a great idea that you have devised though. Of course there are so many variables and the room/floor system is always our own unique experience.

Have you guys had a chance to read this comparison?

KEF LS50 (David) Versus JBL 4722 Cinema (Goliath) Speaker Comparison

 

[rdale]

Have you guys had a chance to read this comparison?

KEF LS50 (David) Versus JBL 4722 Cinema (Goliath) Speaker Comparison

Yes, I have seen that article and I left a comment on the discussion about it. I only had one sub woofer at the stage and a lot less acoustic treatment, particularly bass traps. So my KEF system is sounding a lot better than it did in 2019. As I added extra bass traps, the sound of the system steadily improved, and not just in the bass region. So I have found that the room easily is the limitation of a sub £6k system, let alone a 50k plus system.

I have a vinyl system in the same apartment based on large Tannoy Cheviot speakers and I like both systems; I don’t feel the active system lacks bass authority compared with the Tannoys. But the bass of LPs played on my Technics SL1210 GR does have a certain sound to it that the other system doesn’t in terms of slam which I love. I will carry on adding acoustic treatment to the Tannoy room and it will be interesting to see how good they end up sounding - my feeling is that they will respond really well.

 

[sailor]

I really dont know what your complaint is about sir. Is it about stand mounts or floor standers

From your post #81, are you addressing me or StingRay? You assume too much, I'm not complaining about anything only trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to inform and help. It seems to me you have a reading comprehension problem.

And if anyone talks about room modes and nulls caused because one employs 15 inch drivers, they have no clue and no physical experience and are just qouting theory to sound smart.

Once again you are off field and why the hostility??? You are extremely rude!

The link posted by @tuga above bears out some of what I've been saying.

 

[StingRay]

I really dont know what your complaint is about sir. Is it about stand mounts or floor standers. Ive already admitted that floorstanders vibrate more and dissipate a larger sound. It really depends on what you are comparing . I can only convey my experience with my largish floor standers. And as for those tannoy 15 inchers, I have 4 x 15 inch drivers sitting in my room as I type this, and i dare not employ them into active duty. Your goodselves should start with 8 or 10 inchers and see if your room and your ears can handle it. We all dream of having 15 inch drivers, but hardly anyone of us has the room to handle it. And if anyone talks about room modes and nulls caused because one employs 15 inch drivers, they have no clue and no physical experience and are just qouting theory to sound smart.

My comment was about the generalisation that Floorstanders, do this and that, when many of then don't. A lot of modern floorstanders are thin columns, sime are just the stand mount with a longer cabinet, not all standmounts are small either.

 

[newlash09]

From your post #81, are you addressing me or StingRay? You assume too much, I'm not complaining about anything only trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to inform and help. It seems to me you have a reading comprehension problem.


Once again you are off field and why the hostility??? You are extremely rude!

The link posted by @tuga above bears out some of what I've been saying.

I apologise for the above. It does sound rude in hindsight, though that was not the intention. I will try deleting my post and see if it works.

 

[hearhere]

A lot of modern floorstanders are thin columns, sime are just the stand mount with a longer cabinet, not all standmounts are small either.

Yes , there is a trend towards slimmer, more visually acceptable floor-standers and, as you mention often this looks as if the enclosure sides has been extended downwards.

But think about that. No ugly stand with a more attractive end result, and a much bigger volume that will allow either a second (albeit still quite small) woofer, or a perhaps a bigger one. In either event (as with all box speakers), the bigger the volume the better.

 

[Nopiano]

I recalled this thread, when yesterday I was looking through an archived edition of Stereophile. This ‘sidebar’ article appeared about 25 years ago but it seems like it could have been written for this thread. Authored by the estimable Martin Colloms.

 

[AJvR]

I had several stand mounts and floorstanders in the past, B&W CM4, Piega, AVI Trio, AVI Brio, Merlin TSM, Acoustic Energy AE1 Mk3 ref, AVI Pro 9+, and more that I do not recall now. My experience is somewhat similar to most, precise maging vs. scale. However, with the help of some subwoofers and DSP that 'floorstander scale' is also within reach of a good sat-sub system. Furthermore, I like the looks of a stand mount, although it does occupy as much floor space as a floorstander, the visual impact is less, and more sophisticated, entirely subjective off course.

I think my next system will be the following active dsp sub-sat system:
Source: PC with SSD + Qobuz + Dirac Live + DLBC
Preamp processor: miniDSP Flex HTx
Power amps: some Hypex Ncore I think
Stand mounts: Sun Audio Purified 4
Subwoofers: Arendal 1723

Looks pretty cool imho:

 

[Bodgit]

I've gone from stand mount EPOS ES14s to floorstanding ES30s to ATC SCM40s. The move to ES30s was to get more bass and slam and I was disappointed, power amps were Musical Fidelity A-X200 mono blocks so not short on power. The sound was certainly "bigger", perhaps less focused but didn't give me what I wanted.

The move to SCM40s was the sound I craved for, but of course comes at a cost, with 500W mono blocks. So I'd say depends on the speaker. I've heard expensive stand mounts that were just unbelievable...audition is the answer

 

[bencat]

Not sure what you describe the Quad ESL 57 as I suppose with original legs they were floor standers but as the are now on stands they are stand mounts . Whatever they are called they sound wonderful

 

[The_Krell]

FWIW,
I went from a top quality pair of Dali Epicon 2's mounted on top quality Track Audio precision stands to Klipsch Cornwall 3's. In the same room with the same equipment feeding them, I found the floorstanders far superior, bigger soundstage and just more effortless. I would never go back to standmounts unless the room was really tiny.
Cheers Ady

So you've gone from one manufacturer to another with a very different design philsophy and because you prefer the Klipsch and they happen to be floorstanders vs the Dali stand mounts it seems that you've decided that floorstanders must be better than stand mounts....really?