Speaker Upgrade

[Davewhityetagain]

New toys came in the post very nice

 

[kennyk]

looking forward to the review from any nearby bats

 

[Guest]

Davewhityetagain wrote:

New toys came in the post very nice

Nice ashtray/lighter combo Dave

 

[earl of sodbury]

supertweeters are for wimps!

:raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

 

[Guest]

should have bought proper speakers in the first place

 

[cjr]

earl of sodbury wrote:

supertweeters are for wimps!:raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

ROTFLMA :

Yep good point Earl, at least human hearing range can pick up subs. As for those lumps of hardwood & brass. Dave did the chap selling you them run off laughing after getting the cash ?

A small flying mammal enjoying Daves tweeters.

 

[Guest]

earl of sodbury wrote:

supertweeters are for wimps!:raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

:force:

 

[JamPal]

cjr wrote:

earl of sodbury wrote:

supertweeters are for wimps!:raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

ROTFLMA :

Yep good point Earl, at least human hearing range can pick up subs. As for those lumps of hardwood & brass. Dave did the chap selling you them run off laughing after getting the cash ?

A small flying mammal enjoying Daves tweeters.

Very good. I like the Bat.

Ohh Dave, Dave, Davey Davey Dave Dave.. will you ever live this down..

No.

 

[Davewhityetagain]

hifiwigwam wrote:

cjr wrote:

earl of sodbury wrote:

supertweeters are for wimps!:raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao::raoflmfao:

ROTFLMA :

Yep good point Earl, at least human hearing range can pick up subs. As for those lumps of hardwood & brass. Dave did the chap selling you them run off laughing after getting the cash ?

A small flying mammal enjoying Daves tweeters.

Very good. I like the Bat.

Ohh Dave, Dave, Davey Davey Dave Dave.. will you ever live this down..

No.

Try them chap who use to design for B&W from hi fi Choice forum said how they work over the whole range of what we hear

mid range is most ? "changed" improved it was to decide I wanted them so many speakers come with them fitted

I just found out the new mini Tannoy have the super tweeter built into middle of the dual concentric making a I suppose tri concentric

 

[Davewhityetagain]

found this review of them very interesting

[align=justify]Add-on super tweeters have been around for a long time, and are now having a resurgence in popularity, perhaps due to the new formats that push the frequency envelope. Ribbon tweeters from Decca and semispherical piezoelectric tweeters from MuRata have garnered much acclaim among the audiophile faithful. What we have here is the latest from Max Townshend of Townshend Audio, add-on ribbon tweeters that will extend the frequency of your speakers to a point that can drive the neighbor's dog batty. Looking like electric razors from an era long past, the Townshend Audio Maximum Super Tweeters have a claimed ruler-flat frequency response of 20kHz to 70kHz (-3dB at 12kHz and -6dB at 90kHz). The sensitivity is adjustable via a stepped attenuator, to suit speakers ranging from 80 to 110dB in sensitivity. Their impedance is a nominal 6 ohms at 20kHz and increases to 30 ohms at 100kHz, though they look like a rather benign 8 ohms to the amplifier. They can handle up to 350 watts, so unless you are planning on killing your self and your system, they should be fine with any sensible amplifier. And they are quite heavy despite being so small—meaning their magnet is rather beefy.[/align]

[align=justify]Alright, what do the Townshend Super Tweeters really do? I mean, we are all pretty deaf above 16kHz, and most people spin regular CDs, where there ain't nuttin' much above 20kHz anyhow (actually 22.5Khz, if you want to be exact), so what's the deal? (Of course, DSD, DVD-A, and LPs do not see this rolloff—make that a brick wall or dead end at 20kHz—so playing any of these formats with the Townshend tweeters in the chain should result in a more significant audible improvement than that heard from regular CDs. This is true, at least to my ears and senses, although greater benefits can be heard further down range. More on that later.)[/align]

[align=justify]To paraphrase from the Townshend site:[/align]

[align=justify]The all new Townshend Audio Maximum Ribbon Super Tweeter is designed to extend the response of conventional Hi-Fi speakers to 100kHz. Just as the subwoofer fills in the bottom end, the Maximum Super Tweeter fills in the top end. It makes the music much more real! All instruments—even double basses—take on an extra clarity that is neither bright nor brash. In fact the sound is both clearer and smoother. The really surprising thing is that when the tweeters are played alone, one can barely, if at all, hear a thing. Remarkably, however, all listeners—even, for example, those having no sine wave sensitivity above 10kHz—experience the same enhancement when the Super Tweeters are engaged, describing the sound of their hi-fi systems as 'more natural' and comfortable to listen to.[/align]

[align=justify]Max goes on to say:[/align]

[align=justify]Embodying super-powerful neodymium magnets and an ultra thin eight micron pure aluminum ribbon, the Super Tweeter offers outstanding performance in an easy to drive compact package. All copper conductors, including the matching transformer windings and the aluminum ribbon, are deep cryogenically treated (DCT) for unrivalled fidelity. Pressure relief vents in the sides of the case are provided to allow the air pressure on the ribbon to equalize in the event of sudden pressure changes.[/align]

[align=justify]Okay, now we know what they are, and what Max Townshend says they do, but let's take this a bit further. Tannoy, in a white paper on their super tweeters, suggests that they may be doing several things (at least with their own speakers, so lets assume this applies to other speakers—see Tannoy for more). Super tweeters extend the frequency range of a loudspeaker by several octaves above that of human hearing—16-20kHz (audible by children at least!). This makes sense, they are super tweeters—they'd better have an output up to the stratosphere (and the Townshend tweeters do). This, based on the fact that many instruments produce considerable energy above 20kHz (some extend up to 40kHz), results in increased tonal accuracy of instruments and improved transient response. That is, with super tweeters, things sound more right.[/align]

[align=justify]Another site (http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm) digs even more deeply into the matter of how much musical energy various instruments possess above the threshold of what a normal person can hear. According to this site, there is quite a bit of musical information well beyond what one we assume is the limit of our hearing. Of course, this begs the argument that if we cannot hear that high, who cares? I have read theories related to things like hairs inside the skull being stimulated (or something like that) by frequencies far beyond what we can hear. This allows us to respond in other ways to these frequencies (that is, we do react to them), and I would say that until this is explored by a trained professional—as opposed to an untrained professional, who should not be exploring the hairs inside our skulls or anywhere else—we can leave this argument for now.[/align]

[align=justify]Okay, but if a regular CD cuts things off rather abruptly at 20kHz, why should super tweeters make a difference with that format? And if all that stuff beyond the audible range is not being heard or reacted to (assuming that the previous is circumspect—I'm not saying it is or isn't), why do the super tweeters do what they do lower down the frequency range, with any format? Paraphrasing again from the Tannoy site, a super tweeter, if it can be time aligned to the other drivers (mid and treble), "… will reduce the high frequency phase error by moving the low pass roll off point much higher, typical - 6dB @ 54kHz, -18dB @ 100kHz. So even if we ignore for now the perception of sound above 20kHz, the addition of a super tweeter will better preserve the harmonic relationship between instruments."[/align]

[align=justify]Tannoy concludes by stating that, "Even with the conventional CD sources, the addition of a super tweeter reduces phase error and improves transient performance (of a speaker) significantly below 20kHz." This makes sense if they are affecting the output of the other drivers as suggested above by the STs' own output below 20kHz. And since they do have considerable output within the audible frequencies (down to below 12kHz), it would appear that their presence helps to clean up the interaction of the mid and treble drivers, or, as a teacher might suggest, the Super Tweeters get the other drivers to play together just that much better. Ahhh, harmony.[/align]

[align=justify]All this means that their effect should carry over to any medium being played—CD, SACD, LP, 8-track, etc. If they affect the interaction or behavior of the main speakers, then you get the whole deal all the time—not just with extended bandwidth formats. Cool. I should point out that I did the majority [/align]

[align=justify]of my listening to either LPs or regular CDs.[/align]

[align=justify]

[/align]

 

[Guest]

Dave you always say not to trust reviews

 

[Davewhityetagain]

Duvet wrote:

Dave you always say not to trust reviews

I did not buy off the back of a review only just found that, bought after a demo

the affect is fantastic and worth doing Tannoy make them as does Townshend

not cheep but cheep than getting bigger speakers, the affect is through the whole range highs mid and lows

I reckon if I keep these speakers with the supertweeters then the saving over getting the yorkminster is 5k of course they can be used with the Westminsters or Yorkmisters too :dude:

 

[Guest]

syop trying to justify it whitter, shoulda bought proper speakers in the first place, these a subs, like a sticking plaster

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Heard the JAS Audio supertweeters at the weekend - not that good IMO. Buy a speaker with a decent tweeter instead. Certainly not good value at £695 IMO.

 

[cjr]

Dave remember like any small speaker they will need proper stands to perform optimally, these look just the job old chap:

 

[Davewhityetagain]

Papa Lazarou wrote:

Heard the JAS Audio supertweeters at the weekend - not that good IMO. Buy a speaker with a decent tweeter instead. Certainly not good value at £695 IMO.

Heard a few now, I think these are good as they are made for this speaker range

its very easy to sit there and tell the differance

 

[Guest]

Papa Lazarou wrote:

Heard the JAS Audio supertweeters at the weekend - not that good IMO. Buy a speaker with a decent tweeter instead. Certainly not good value at £695 IMO.

to be fair, the jas one hasn't received good reviews the other 2 did

 

[Davewhityetagain]

cjr wrote:

Dave remember like any small speaker they will need proper stands to perform optimally, these look just the job old chap:

:sw: like it but they come with 2 inch stands and sit in the middle of the top of the Turnberries

 

[Davewhityetagain]

Papa Lazarou wrote:

Heard the JAS Audio supertweeters at the weekend - not that good IMO. Buy a speaker with a decent tweeter instead. Certainly not good value at £695 IMO.

£695

only get you one of these