Sugden

[hifinutt]

Any particular model?

Amphion argon one is delightful standmount , 3s is a bit bigger with rear passive rad , and the 3ls is the floorstander . all well worth a listen and very versatile Moorgate is sheffeld a good place to try them

 

[Alvolake]

Personally I find Sugden don’t respond well to mains cable upgrades. No difference or in some cases, degrading in sound. My advice would be sticking with what you have or at most, a high quality built cable with no intervention.
I personally would also consider spending any money on the SE to Signature spec which will include a service, check and faceplate upgrade. This doesn’t cost a lot of money by comparison to a so called cable upgrade that can and do cost more.

You’re probably right Rockchild, it would go against the grain a bit. I spoke on various occasions to Patrick about i/cs and speaker cable and, apart from Siltech and Prelude, a Swiss firm they distributed at the time, he believed that a well made up copper cable was the best bet. Oh yes, and Max Townsend’s cables - I can’t remember the name.
I had no idea that there existed a Signature update. In fact, when the Signature first came out I phoned Patrick about such a possibility and he told me no chance, because no-one would buy a new Signature model but prefer the update. Maybe things have changed now as the Signature would seem to have achieved its aim . He also told me, or at least this is what I understood from his words, that the whole Signature thingy was a way of keeping the model “in the papers” , a sort of hifi press refresh after 10 years on the marketand that the differences were nothing like a “new model”. I can’t think of a good reason why I might prefer the new front plate and internally the only difference I can see from photos is that the output caps were Eurocaps at 65 degrees and are now Samwha from Korea. I changed mine for Panasonics at 105 degrees years ago, yes temps in Tenerife are a bit higher normally, for doing which I got severely rebuked at the time by Patrick’s dad because he said I had changed the voicing of the amp.Happy days.

 

[Alvolake]

As I thought ,Sugden do not offer to bring A21se up to Signature spec. Not in their interests. Make of that as you will. Mind you I doubt VW would do either with my 1975 Beetle nor Mini with my wife’s 1981 model

 

[Bigwig07]

Reluctant sale of my Sugden A21a Signature in the classifieds. Plug

 

[Rockchild]

Reluctant sale of my Sugden A21a Signature in the classifieds. Plug

I noticed everything your selling off. What are you going to use because there is some nice kit there.

 

[Bigwig07]

I noticed everything your selling off. What are you going to use because there is some nice kit there.

Hi RC - lol yes well I have some more stuff yet to come too.

I haven't quite decided on the full final set up but it will most probably be with a Stirling LS3/5a V3 front end (on order since February and yet to arrive !), and some spare kit.

I may then look to upgrade again in 12 months or so.

I loved the Sugden but it didn't quite gel with my existing speakers

 

[Bigwig07]

.. and I may live to regret the sale actually.

I'm looking to get back into Class A or tubes at some future date

 

[Alvolake]

Does anyone actually know the differences between the original A21SE and the 10 years later SIGNATURE model that substituted it.
At the time, Sugden did mention the use of some lower impedance components and silver cabling in the newer guise but nothing definite and as I was told at the time" the A21Se has been on the market for 10 years and a refresh-up was in order “.I did ask if mine could be updated to the new spec. but no joy as they wished to protect the new Signature owners.and the reply was negative but the changes were obviously not enouigh to warrant a new name, merely a suffix.
Has anyone actually compared the 2 in an audition or technically speaking ?

 

[Rockchild]

Does anyone actually know the differences between the original A21SE and the 10 years later SIGNATURE model that substituted it.
At the time, Sugden did mention the use of some lower impedance components and silver cabling in the newer guise but nothing definite and as I was told at the time" the A21Se has been on the market for 10 years and a refresh-up was in order “.I did ask if mine could be updated to the new spec. but no joy as they wished to protect the new Signature owners.and the reply was negative but the changes were obviously not enouigh to warrant a new name, merely a suffix.
Has anyone actually compared the 2 in an audition or technically speaking ?

Can’t speak directly of the SE but I’ve owned both the a21a S2 and the signature and there was definitely a lift in bass control and dynamics. Not massive but it was there.
Regarding the upgrade, that’s interesting because an upgraded SE was on eBay with the 2012 receipt and the 2019 upgrade paperwork from sugden so it’s been done but perhaps Patrick has decided to stop doing it.

 

[marko]

Signature A21a; a lovely synergy with Audio Note.

 

[Rockchild]

Signature A21a; a lovely synergy with Audio Note.

Excellent choice Sir! I bet it IS good with the AN’s. Does it make you think that you don’t need to spend more on an amp?

 

[marko]

Excellent choice Sir! I bet it IS good with the AN’s. Does it make you think that you don’t need to spend more on an amp?

It’s on loan Jon. The Suggie has many charms, though very different from my more pricey norma IPA70B. It’s going to be an interesting month!

 

[DomT]

It’s on loan Jon. The Suggie has many charms, though very different from my more pricey norma IPA70B. It’s going to be an interesting month!

Would be interesting to hear how they compare.

 

[RICHARDIIII]

Signature A21a; a lovely synergy with Audio Note.

I found the bass to be a little light with my AN-Es and A21a (in comparison with my valve amp) but otherwise a great combo. I would certainly be impressed if a class AB amp could sound as sweet as an A21!

 

[marko]

I found the bass to be a little light with my AN-Es and A21a (in comparison with my valve amp) but otherwise a great combo. I would certainly be impressed if a class AB amp could sound as sweet as an A21!

Absolutely oodles of bass with The A21a Sig. I could certainly live with The Sugden, easy peasy!
Both are exciting and engaging amplifiers to listen to. However, and imho, The norma IPA 70B is more ‘refined’ than The Sugden, and by some margin.

 

[Idlewithnodrive]

My A21al works exceptionally well with my Transmission Audio M1i's but good luck finding a pair.

 

[Southall-1998]

Signature A21a; a lovely synergy with Audio Note.

Which AN CD Player is that?

S.

 

[Amormusic]

I found the bass to be a little light with my AN-Es and A21a (in comparison with my valve amp) but otherwise a great combo. I would certainly be impressed if a class AB amp could sound as sweet as an A21!

This.

I stuck many speakers on the end of my A21 Sig at the turn of the year.

The AN marriage, for me, just wasn't perfect...

I'm not knocking your speaks Marko at all, they are epic and also easily the best finish of any I tried. Other speaker manufacturers could learn from AN for sure on this point. It's just that the combo didn't jump up and "grab me", if you follow... It's all totally subjective of course...

but imo there are better pairings. So I'm not surprised in your findings.

On a side note, I've arranged to buy another beauty amp to grace my living room and side-by-side against my Sugden. It will be a while until I can collect. 62 year old fully rebuilt valve amp VS Suggie Sig.

 

[Rockchild]

Which AN CD Player is that?

S.

Speakers

 

[marko]

Thanks Amormusic. My ANE’s look lovely and sound wonderful as well - to me anyway . As you you allude, not for everyone though. I get that. However, irrespective of how you cut it, synergy is the key! We all know when it sounds ‘right’ or otherwise, whatever that is! CD player is AN CD2.1x/11.
Enjoy a weekend of music. It’ll
be ‘blasting’ out all day and night here! As Peter @ Audio Note says, and I paraphrase; “if you want to get the dust off your cones, turn it up”! .