These guys just get better and better

[wolfgang]

Great. How come you never mentioned this before? Did you use any ABX switch box and did it like the Matrix guys?

 

[TheDude]

Mr Coherent wrote:

James,Perhaps you just need to stick with your current set and not worry about what you can/can not or percieve or not to be. Just sink another bottle of red and put some cool vibes on. Life is more than just wires and cd players, it about living it.

I am spending too much time here old chap, that's for sure. I'm on holiday next week, thank god, and will come back refreshed.

 

[Mr Coherent]

Where you off to Dude?, some where peaceful I hope.

Even Mr.C's is off for a week as well !!

 

[murray johnson]

CJR.

No not at all. I actually think the whole MD thing is a deliberate scheme to take money from gullible audiophiles. I actually think it is very funny and very clever. I'm intrigued to see how much further they can take it.

I didn't actually endorse the expensive Nordost cables either but just Nordost's right to make and market whatever they like. Its up to customers to decide whether such things are worth the money. I actively dislike the sound of the Nordost cables I've listened to but doubtless Mosfet and others will say that they all sound the same.

What I am railing against is the idea that the only way one can be sure one hears an improvement or even a difference between two items of equipment is if that comparison is subject to double blind testing. I think that's bollocks. That's all.

Wolfgang. They weren't ABX they were group tests & I wasn't the organiser.

 

[TheDude]

Mr Coherent wrote:

Where you off to Dude?, some where peaceful I hope.Even Mr.C's is off for a week as well !!

Lithuania!

For my mates wedding. I am writing the speech right now. It's fekkin merciless.:lmao:

 

[Mr Coherent]

Good Choice, last wedding I was best man at, I cabled tied the guiys hands behind his back jammed a very large leak between the checks of his ass, covered him in Zaflora disinfectant (The flowery smeeely one they use in hospitals), put oraage permanant hair dye on his hair and pubs, and haand cuffed to an all womans club bollock naked.

Most surprisingly I have not been asked to be best man again?

 

[wolfgang]

murray johnson wrote:

What I am railing against is the idea that the only way one can be sure one hears an improvement or even a difference between two items of equipment is if that comparison is subject to double blind testing. I think that's bollocks. That's all.Wolfgang. They weren't ABX they were group tests & I wasn't the organiser.

Maybe we misunderstood each other. I never suggest DBT is the only way. I never remember anyone claimed subjective listening both short and long term are not valid or useful. Just that if some one did carry out a few well organised DBTs (or even single blind comparison) then the conclusion will be more solid and if it appear to goes against our past impressions we should review our expectation and do more careful listening again. Maybe what we assumed where wrong after all.

 

[Borats Baby]

Wow, This threads got really heavy maaan

James, If I think your talking bollocks, I will tell you weather your names "The Dude" or "hifiwigwam"

Most of the time* you talk sense, so I see (personally) no need for "The Dude"

* apart from when cars are involved

 

[mrwippy]

Just wanted to bring to all discerning types the latest MD upgrade :nup:so we could enter into an adult and dispassionate debate on it's merits

.

Me, I'll try any tweak as long as its free, so will never hear 99.99% of them.

 

[i_should_coco]

mrwippy wrote:

Just wanted to bring to all discerning types the latest MD upgrade :nup:so we could enter into an adult and dispassionate debate on it's merits

.

Like that was ever gonna happen with an MD thread. Do a search on AudioAsylum if you haven't already. Much fun

 

[Filete]

Burn in hell you skeptic ones!

I made a deep research on my speakers and found out they were manufactured in august so they are LEO, that is what makes them so temperamental. I hope this guys at machina dinamica start publiching the weekly zodiacal predictions for my speakers... may be the match fine with strong sagittarius amps?

 

[murray johnson]

mosfet wrote:

At the moment I have a Technics SLPG580A CD player into a Heed CanAmp and a pair of Beyer Dynamic Headphones. Do I win the prize for downsizing murray? My music sounds bloody marvellous by the way, better than ever in fact, perhaps because I’ve stopped listening to the kit.

I'm very pleased for you. I don't like headphones. However, I was listening to some Schubert on a tiny 3"x4" transistor radio the other day &I really enjoyed it, both the playing and the music.

However, I want my stereo system to do a little more than that & still allow me to enjoy the music. Thankfully it does.

 

[George 47]

I guess the real problem with MD (apart from the obvious) is the 'tarring with the same brush' syndrome. As soon as they bring out something that is even more outre then this allows others to jump in and say that cables, amps, CDs, transports all sound the same and anyone claiming anything else must be as off beam as the MD lot.

ABX (DBX) tests are sometimes touted as 'scientific' but can give even worse results than subjective results. The important thing is getting rid of the variables and in hif there are many. The idea of adding a cheap EQ set up to get rid of frequency repsonse anomalies is laughable. Talk about baby with the bathwater

And then there are some level headed guys talking about cable differences. I can't remember the site but it dealt with 7 myths about about power cables. I liked the one on 'why bother with the last 3' when there are miles between you and the power station'. It was dealt with really well. Think about the problem from the point of view of the amp, what it interacts with are the 3' between the amp and wall socket. Then the next length to the street mains transformer. Then there is a degree of isolation.

Also the analogy of cables being a 'hosepipe for current' is not quite true for AC mains as opposed to DC.

 

[George 47]

From what I know those big Tannoys have a big wavy line in their frequency response, but many people find them a joy to listen to. So clearly measurements cannot show us what will be pleasing to us. However I think they can show us the difference between an actual difference and no difference at all.

Eh........... Where's that then? Big wavy line????

 

[JamPal]

George 47 wrote:

From what I know those big Tannoys have a big wavy line in their frequency response, but many people find them a joy to listen to. So clearly measurements cannot show us what will be pleasing to us. However I think they can show us the difference between an actual difference and no difference at all.

Eh........... Where's that then? Big wavy line????

The nice chap in Heatherdale Audio was telling me that one of the big Tannoy models (newer big bugger - sadly rear ported:shock has a far from flat frequency response. I don't know if this is true, it may be a poor example. Either way they are popular.

 

[garyi]

The inherent issue with all this, is that 80% of hifi purchase is brand awareness/lust and the rest prejudice. Blind tests will never mean anything to the person that wants to purchase something specific. 100 blind tests could tell me amp a is not as good as amp b, but if those little connections in my brain has told me I want amp a, then amp a it is.

There is no logic to this game, none what so ever. Trying to apply logic with science to a luxury consumer market is pointless.

 

[rabski]

garyi wrote:

The inherent issue with all this, is that 80% of hifi purchase is brand awareness/lust and the rest prejudice. Blind tests will never mean anything to the person that wants to purchase something specific. 100 blind tests could tell me amp a is not as good as amp b, but if those little connections in my brain has told me I want amp a, then amp a it is.There is no logic to this game, none what so ever. Trying to apply logic with science to a luxury consumer market is pointless.

Woah. I'd like to know where you got those 'facts' from......

 

[mikehit]

I'm intrigued by the comment:

George 47 wrote:

ABX (DBX) tests are sometimes touted as 'scientific' but can give even worse results than subjective results.

What do you mean by 'worse results'?

 

[Davewhityetagain]

HiFiWigWam wrote:

George 47 wrote:

From what I know those big Tannoys have a big wavy line in their frequency response, but many people find them a joy to listen to. So clearly measurements cannot show us what will be pleasing to us. However I think they can show us the difference between an actual difference and no difference at all.

Eh........... Where's that then? Big wavy line????

The nice chap in Heatherdale Audio was telling me that one of the big Tannoy models (newer big bugger - sadly rear ported:shock has a far from flat frequency response. I don't know if this is true, it may be a poor example. Either way they are popular.

The new big tannoy with rear "ports" (two) is the 15 inch glenairs having played with them i can tell you yes they have ports but put your hand in, and you will see they are not normal ports they are filled with something ? the ports are more like vent to stop the cabinets coming apart if played loud

i taped card to the ports and had no trouble sticking them against a wall with NO boom :lmao:

as for the "far from flat" comment ? :rockin:they sound great to me

 

[George 47]

mikehit wrote:

I'm intrigued by the comment:George 47 wrote:

ABX (DBX) tests are sometimes touted as 'scientific' but can give even worse results than subjective results.

What do you mean by 'worse results'?

Inconsistency.

ABX is touted as being scientific which should mean that we all get nice consistent results because we all understand the variables. Only self deception gets in the way.

BUT have a look at the ABX results; Doug Self has done them and 'shown' that amps do not sound different and he can emulate any amp you want with distortion. Others have used them and shown no interconnect differences (yet some on this forum have done ABX tests and have shown ABX differences). Mains cables are much less well tested.

So amps do or do not sound different with ABX, interconnects mainly don't but occassionaly do, loudspeaker cables tend not to but do sometimes and mains cables never.

Are we using a foot ruler to measure a 1" gap?

Are we taking account of all the variables?

Are we trying to solve one problem (possible frequency response issues) by creating a worse one (putting in a cheap Eq system)?