Upgrade from Linn AV 5125 to C5100 - unexpected outcome

[Einar]

Have been running a Linn Ninka, AV 5103 and aktiv AV 5125 system. Very pleased. Source is mainly Spotify through CCA optical into the 5103 DAC and Mimik CD as a transport with coax digital also to the 5103. 5125 has the Dynamik power supply upgrade.

Came across a C5100 with Chakra power this weekend that I could not pass up as a possible upgrade. Was not sure what to expect but what I have found so far is less clarity and less detail. Not a bad sound and some may even prefer it to the separation provided by the 5125.  Have been playing with the gain adjustment. The 5125 only has one adjustment while the C5100 has four. The cards in the C5100 have been installed recently and likely not played much. Have checked all connections inside units and they seem correct.

Will need to do some more listening and testing but would be interested to hear what to expect and any settings/adjustments/tests I should be aware of. And finally would the C5100 aktiv be considered an upgrade to the 5125 aktiv?

All thoughts and advice welcome.   

 

[Paulssurround]

I have been on the Linn Forum and now the HiFi Wigwam for a combined total of more than 10 years, reading people’s views on different Linn amps.

‘The consensus is that the 5125 with Dynamik is an excellent amp, and generally rates better than a Chakra 5100. A Dynamik power supply in the C5100 would make the sound quality better, but I don’t think it would be much better than the 5125., if at all.

‘I have owned and enjoyed 2 Dynamik 5100’s and 6100’s with Ninkas in an aktiv Linn surround system, and was very happy with them. Eventually I went to aktiv Majik Isobariks and then Akubariks

The system you have a a good one and I would not rush out to swap the 5125s to 5100’s

 

[Pennypacker]

5125/D has more power, slightly warmer, slightly less detailed then x100(D). The other way around: a 5100 should give you more clarity and detail, but less oomph. 

IMO a 5125/D has somewhat the same soundsignature as Klout, this is from memory A/B at the time. 

I would not give up on a 5125/D if not really necessary, I owned one for a while and found a really good amp. I’m now used to the x100 in my exaktbox but that’s a different story.

 

[Einar]

Thanks both. Very helpful. For now I am finding less clarity with the 5100 but I may have some listening bias to overcome. Any adjustments (gain or otherwise) I should be considering? 

Should have mentioned that I have a Sizmik 10.25 in the mix and may be getting a tad much bass with both amps but may be more pronounced with the 5100. The Ninkas may not need the Sizmik.

And the 5100 is keeper. If not in the main system I do have a Second pair of Ninkas and a pair og Katans that will be a second system in. With one of the amps and a Wakonda. The Sizmik may be most useful if I go with the Katans. 

 

[Dasher]

I auditioned the x100 series at length and decided to stay with my 5125s. I agree with what has been said above - more power and depth with the 5125  - more detail with the x100 (but it comes at a price of depth). Like Pennypacker, I too now have x100 amplifiers in my second system via an Exaktbox -i - again bringing clarity and detail at the expense of oomph!

The NInkas should work well with the Sizmik 10.25 - the trick is to have the Sizmik so that you almost don't notice it - turn it down and then turn it down again! I run a pair of Sizmiks with my Espeks permanently - 2 channel and multi channel. You hardly notice them when they are on - but if you turn them off it is very noticeable indeed. It took quite a while to get them just right - turn the coarse gain down almost to the point where it goes away and then bring it back using the fine gain. When you're happy then take the fine gain back down one notch! When the Sizmik is set up right it is almost as if it isn't meant to be heard.

 

[Pennypacker]

I auditioned the x100 series at length and decided to stay with my 5125s. I agree with what has been said above - more power and depth with the 5125  - more detail with the x100 (but it comes at a price of depth). Like Pennypacker, I too now have x100 amplifiers in my second system via an Exaktbox -i - again bringing clarity and detail at the expense of oomph!

The NInkas should work well with the Sizmik 10.25 - the trick is to have the Sizmik so that you almost don't notice it - turn it down and then turn it down again! I run a pair of Sizmiks with my Espeks permanently - 2 channel and multi channel. You hardly notice them when they are on - but if you turn them off it is very noticeable indeed. It took quite a while to get them just right - turn the coarse gain down almost to the point where it goes away and then bring it back using the fine gain. When you're happy then take the fine gain back down one notch! When the Sizmik is set up right it is almost as if it isn't meant to be heard.

I once set up a sub in a 2.1 system and it drove me up the wall. The worm in my head constant kept spitting about the position of the sub. I finally gave in an put the worm to sleep, only to discover that my then 3 and 4 year old daughters played with settings on the sub itself from time to time...

 

[TooManyCatweazles]

I moved from 2 Klouts to a C6100, when I aktivated my AV5140s, and also used the magnificent 5103 as a preamp. The C6100 added more clarity - or was that due to the switch to aktive?

Anyway, upgrading to the Dynamik PSU later was really worth the money. I never auditioned a 5125, in comparison, but many here wrote positive about it. So keeping both is probably right for you  If your C5100 is without Dynamik, try to source one!

 

[Dasher]

I once set up a sub in a 2.1 system and it drove me up the wall. The worm in my head constant kept spitting about the position of the sub. I finally gave in an put the worm to sleep, only to discover that my then 3 and 4 year old daughters played with settings on the sub itself from time to time...

I killed that worm by putting a second Sizmik in the system!

 

[Pennypacker]

I killed that worm by putting a second Sizmik in the system!

These worms are getting expensive..

 

[Dasher]

These worms are getting expensive..

Today I just cue up "The White Album", Side Two, Track Three and it frightens them all away!

 

[Einar]

Thanks. Will work with the Sizmik. I have had it set up per the manual's default settings so far. 

Still a little concerned that I seem to be the only one to find the C5100 to provide less detail than the 5125. Could there be a trick I am missing or is it likely to be the advantage of Dynamik over Chakra power?

Any advice on setting the gain on the 5100? I find the gain adjustment to have little granular impact on the sound until it drops of markedly. 

 

[Pennypacker]

Thanks. Will work with the Sizmik. I have had it set up per the manual's default settings so far. 

Still a little concerned that I seem to be the only one to find the C5100 to provide less detail than the 5125. Could there be a trick I am missing or is it likely to be the advantage of Dynamik over Chakra power?

Any advice on setting the gain on the 5100? I find the gain adjustment to have little granular impact on the sound until it drops of markedly. 

Interlinks can give such impact 

 

[Elad Repooc]

Still a little concerned that I seem to be the only one to find the C5100 to provide less detail than the 5125. Could there be a trick I am missing or is it likely to be the advantage of Dynamik over Chakra power?

I have done this comparison with Klouts and Cx100 amps with Aktiv Tukans and the Dynamik Chakra amps have the slightest edge in performance, however the Aktiv card tech is also newer so there is that to consider. Since an AV5125 can use Dynamik my guess is as elsewhere mentioned - negligible if any huge difference in performance, though one would expect the newer amps to be a bit less noisy - "cleaner" sounding. Having two separate power amps in the case of the AV5125 (or Klout in my case) would lead one to think that the sound should be better, but there are numerous factors at play here...

It's possible that you may have an early set of Aktiv cards for the Ninkas paired with the C5100, and the AV5125 uses completely different cards if I recall correctly. So the differences may very well be due to the Aktiv cards (as well as internal vs. external interconnects between channels) and not so much the amps.

Also It has always been my experience that the best performance with Aktiv was to connect to the highest frequency card input first (e.g. treble) from the upstream preamplifier, then cascade to mid- and low- frequency inputs from there. If you have this reversed between the amps then perhaps this could also be a factor.

And finally I think the Ninka can be used as a tri-amp aktiv speaker. With the full set of cards I'd probably set it up this way - AV5103>C5100 Treble>C5100 Mid>AV5125 Bass - or whichever combination actually happened to sound better (would take a bit of swapping things back and forth though). My inclination has always been to use the best amplifiers on the HF and Mid frequencies when possible (Linn has indicated that this is generally the case in their experience as well, despite what "conventional" thinking is regarding having as much amp power for a bass driver as possible). 

 

[Einar]

The aktive cards are different. Two stereo aktive cards in the 5125 and 4 cards (called mono cards I assume) in the 5100 (2xchakt08 and 2xchakt09). Both amps have the signal going in to the treble and are then jumped to the bass. Mono cards (in 5100) are from Dec. 2013 while the stereo cards (in 5125)are from Dec 1998. The stereo cards are marked Keilidh which I understand are compatible with Ninka and 5125 (although the 5125 was introduced in 2001). 

 

[Einar]

I do have a spare pair of chakt08 cards. Could I run the ninkas tri amp aktiv adding the spare pair of bass cards? I.e. run the mids ad bass of separate but identical cards? In the current setup, bi amped aktiv, the mids and bass are linked and run of the same cards. 

 

[Pennypacker]

I do have a spare pair of chakt08 cards. Could I run the ninkas tri amp aktiv adding the spare pair of bass cards? I.e. run the mids ad bass of separate but identical cards? In the current setup, bi amped aktiv, the mids and bass are linked and run of the same cards. 

In theory you can, IIRC there is no consensus about the positive or negative outcome of mixing different amps. I think though that you need to attenuated for different output powers. 

 

[CJ1045]

In my view the 5125 is better than the 5100. I have a customer that upgraded from 5100 to 5125 a few years ago and he is very happy with the change.

CJ

 

[Einar]

Thank you. Will spend a few weeks fiddling, swapping cables etc and listening but for now I am leaning towards staying with the 5125/D with the active stereo cards. 

Considering using the 5100/C with a pair of Katans in a second system. Read a review (local magazine from 2006) stating that Katans can be used aktiv with Ninka cards. The treble cards (chakt09) are the same while the Katans take chakt10 bass cards and the Ninkas chakt08 bass cards. Still running the Katans aktiv with chakt08 cards is an improvement. Linn was referenced as having confirmed this. Any experience or views on this? Any risk of causing damage? 

 

[sunbeamgls]

Thank you. Will spend a few weeks fiddling, swapping cables etc and listening but for now I am leaning towards staying with the 5125/D with the active stereo cards. 

Considering using the 5100/C with a pair of Katans in a second system. Read a review (local magazine from 2006) stating that Katans can be used aktiv with Ninka cards. The treble cards (chakt09) are the same while the Katans take chakt10 bass cards and the Ninkas chakt08 bass cards. Still running the Katans aktiv with chakt08 cards is an improvement. Linn was referenced as having confirmed this. Any experience or views on this? Any risk of causing damage? 

Active bass cards often have a "lift" to the lower frequencies.  If you're using a Ninka card that has a bass lift for Ninka size drivers, your little Katan drivers may object.