Bass in music

[TIU]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar

The above links have no real relevance, just brief histories. As I get older I am disliking hearing bass more and more, especially amplified electric bass guitar which has evolved as a necessity to be heard over louder horn instruments and other amplified guitars. My listening room is about 12' by 18' so should be large enough to accommodate floorstanders but I stick with standmounts. I worry about annoying neighbours too because bass carries more. I have heard floorstanders at a dealers and thought they were impressive but bass dominant. Maybe I heard the wrong ones? I prefer to hear the syncopation or the beats and accents in music, and the tone of instruments played in the middle and higher octaves, and favour standmounts that excel in this area. My mate who is slightly older than me is the opposite and always turns the bass up to maximum. When he hears my system he thinks it's too tinny and doesn't like it. To me the over-emphasized bass sounds awful and swamps the music which often needs a bass line or part to balance or underpin music but most if not all music is firstly written in the tenor and treble clefs, not the bass clef (drum and bass music excepted). Bass needs to be there sometimes for harmonics but I read a lot of comments about gear that 'doesn't do bass'. Also people may dismiss a loudspeaker that excels with mid-range and treble just because they think they don't go low enough. How low do you need to go to enjoy music as it was written?

 

[White Pheasant]

As with any other part of the frequency spectrum, it's a case of striking the right balance. My setup sounds nicely balanced to me despite the speakers not being 'bass monsters' and notusing a sub either.

I think people are often impressed by a 'big' bass as it's the hardest and most expensive part of the spectrum to do properly - hence the proliferation of subwoofers nowin use. I agree that it can easily be over donethough.

 

[TIU]

Bass is more impressive in music. It's why kids have enormous speakers in their cars - it does impress (or they think it does but really makes them look like chav pratts). Bass drums and the kick drum is more impressive than, say, the snare drum. It's not the beyond all and end all though. Why do people usually judge components on the amount of bass they do?

 

[Guest]

turnitup! wrote:

Bass is more impressive in music. It's why kids have enormous speakers in their cars - it does impress (or they think it does but really makes them look like chav pratts). Bass drums and the kick drum is more impressive than, say, the snare drum. It's not the beyond all and end all though. Why do people usually judge components on the amount of bass they do?

oh I dunno, a snare is loud and very dynamic, often can hurt your eyes, but I know what you mean't bass is more primeaval it's also easy for "normal" folks to detect it, bass is overrerated, balance is the key.

 

[White Pheasant]

analoguekid wrote:

oh I dunno, a snare is loud and very dynamic, often can hurt your eyes,

It does if you get a fuckin drumstick in your eye!

 

[Guest]

White Pheasant wrote:

analoguekid wrote:

oh I dunno, a snare is loud and very dynamic, often can hurt your eyes,

It does if you get a fuckin drumstick in your eye!

he he

 

[nixon_fiend]

I dislike a bass-heavy presentation, but if it's part of the music then i'd prefer it to be present..

But, the more expensive kit I listen to, i realise there isn't such a thing as 'bass' - as a tuneless low bloat (dance and electronic music excepted) but the sound of a low instrument that is ill-handled by cheaper kit... and most people perceive 'bass' to be this booming thud. Yet after upgrades you start to hear the texture of the drumskin and the resonance of the double bass string.. Only, smaller speakers (no matter how good) can rarely convey that truth.

So more bass is better 'cos more range is higher fidelity .. but low-fi boomy bass is hideously distracting

 

[Guest]

nixon_fiend wrote:

I dislike a bass-heavy presentation, but if it's part of the music then i'd prefer it to be present..But, the more expensive kit I listen to, i realise there isn't such a thing as 'bass' - as a tuneless low bloat (dance and electronic music excepted) but the sound of a low instrument that is ill-handled by cheaper kit... and most people perceive 'bass' to be this booming thud. Yet after upgrades you start to hear the texture of the drumskin and the resonance of the double bass string.. Only, smaller speakers (no matter how good) can rarely convey that truth.

So more bass is better 'cos more range is higher fidelity .. but low-fi boomy bass is hideously distracting

couldn't have put it better myself

 

[TIU]

A string resonating after being plucked is nothing to do with bass reproduction. If you can hear the bass note you'll hear the resonance. That's more to do with how a system handles the attack and decay of notes or timing. Musicians will often stop unwanted resonances by pressing down on the offending string immediately after plucking it. With the piano one of the foot pedals has this damping effect.

 

[Guest]

midrange is what turns my crank. no harshness and no booming either. and i've got that now and nothing is changing for a long while.

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching. i was running mine full volume yesterday evening(on vinyl) and not a note out of place.

has onion been banned?

 

[Guest]

rudolph hucker wrote:

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching.

thats distortion

 

[Guest]

analoguekid wrote:

rudolph hucker wrote:

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching.

thats distortion

whatever it is i don't like it. midrange ak is where it's at.

also it's a synergy problem.

 

[Marco]

Ina good hi-fi system no part of the frequency response should be obvious or exaggerated- every element of the soundshouldcombine to create a musical whole. The best systems succeed to communicate the emotional element of the music, so that one is moved by the performance and not preoccupied by prosaic considerations such as the amount of bass present. An accurate and natural tonal balance is what one is aiming for, and that combined with emotional communication, creates realism, which is what hi-fi (and music) is all about.

 

[Guest]

Marco wrote:

Ina good hi-fi system no part of the frequency response should be obvious or exaggerated- every element of the soundshouldcombine to create a musical whole. The best systems succeed to communicate the emotional element of the music, so that one is moved by the performance and not preoccupied by prosaic considerations such as the amount of bass present. An accurate and natural tonal balance is what one is aiming for, and that combined with emotional communication, creates realism, which is what hi-fi (and music) is all about.

:^spot on you mad man.

got anymore mana yet? yet there is some for sale on www.hififorsale.com

 

[Guest]

rudolph hucker wrote:

analoguekid wrote:

rudolph hucker wrote:

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching.

thats distortion

whatever it is i don't like it. midrange ak is where it's at.

also it's a synergy problem.

Yes but some systems manage the midrange, and all other frequencies just as well as each other, and can do so without distortion, as a compromise good midrange with rolled frequecies extremes will be more enjoyable long term, but if you can manage it all, then thats the best way.

(PS your av amp might be holding things back here, but changing that may show up deficiences elsewhere so agree balance is a good thing

but surely your turntable deserves better

)

 

[Umberto]

rudolph hucker wrote:

analoguekid wrote:

rudolph hucker wrote:

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching.

thats distortion

whatever it is i don't like it. midrange ak is where it's at.

er...no. Fidelity means reproducing the entire piece of music as closely as possible, bass and all.

But i agree with nixon-fiend. Bass bloat is not necessary reproducing the bass truthfully. Balance is required.

 

[Guest]

analoguekid wrote:

rudolph hucker wrote:

analoguekid wrote:

rudolph hucker wrote:

there is nothing worse than a thuding one note bass that swamps the music or a piercing treble that means you can only go half volume coz of the screeching.

thats distortion

whatever it is i don't like it. midrange ak is where it's at.

also it's a synergy problem.

Yes but some systems manage the midrange, and all other frequencies just as well as each other, and can do so without distortion, as a compromise good midrange with rolled frequecies extremes will be more enjoyable long term, but if you can manage it all, then thats the best way.

(PS your av amp might be holding things back here, but changing that may show up deficiences elsewhere so agree balance is a good thing

but surely your turntable deserves better

)

no i'm very happy it has all i need thanks. when you have it right ak leave alone is my moto and i'm sticking with it thanks.

the ax10i might be holding it back but i've tried many amps in my time and i am not changing. and it's good for the wife and her movies.

 

[Guest]

I thoght you were considering the Jadis?

 

[Marco]

I think Rudi's right to stick to what he's got if he's happy. Getting to that stage with a hi-fi system can be a long and tortuous road, and when you've arrived at the point where you're satisfied and can just sit back and enjoy the music,it's perhaps not advisibletoembark on another journey...