I should be there nice and early with the Dave, Blu Mk2 and new Hugo MScaler. It is going to be a wet day here in Melton Mowbray so all the better for playing with DACs.
Nick.
Nick.
DACoff - Coventry Sunday 14th October
- Thread starter ian917
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I had to leave early and have popped home en route to something else that was pre-arranged but I am sure the bake off is still in full swing.
More later but there is one result already - DACs DO SOUND DIFFERENT.
More later but there is one result already - DACs DO SOUND DIFFERENT.
It belong to Des (@hap hazzard).Oops, look what I just found in my CD player. If the owner PMs me I will post. Sorry.
Many thanks to the Wammers who braved the atrocious conditions this morning to make this such a fun day.
Could each of the attendees please rank the DACs in their personal order of preference (if that's not stepping on eggshells)?
Then we could award max points to top on each list, with points diminishing to bottom, then take an average across all of you to see which DAC is the points champion.
Just a thought.
Then we could award max points to top on each list, with points diminishing to bottom, then take an average across all of you to see which DAC is the points champion.
Just a thought.
A great day Ian thank you, met some decent fellas too and heard some great music...busy buying cd’s now (Paul Pena, cheers Des!).
The DAVE didn’t disappoint, and to my ears gave the most dynamic/unique presentation of all the dacs I got to hear (didn’t get to hear them all). Differences were less noticeable between the Didit/DDDac 1794, which still held it all together well.
Still, because I favour a more relaxed sound, with all the detail in there, my vote goes to the Bricasti M1. Not ‘better’, I can just imagine it being less fatiguing over a typical listening session.
Would like to hear opinions on Colin’s and Des’ DDdac’s, wondering if I should get mine tinkered with...
Oh, and Ed’s speakers impressed, great bass control and revealed changes made to the system (even cables
)
thanks again Ian, a great host.
The DAVE didn’t disappoint, and to my ears gave the most dynamic/unique presentation of all the dacs I got to hear (didn’t get to hear them all). Differences were less noticeable between the Didit/DDDac 1794, which still held it all together well.
Still, because I favour a more relaxed sound, with all the detail in there, my vote goes to the Bricasti M1. Not ‘better’, I can just imagine it being less fatiguing over a typical listening session.
Would like to hear opinions on Colin’s and Des’ DDdac’s, wondering if I should get mine tinkered with...
Oh, and Ed’s speakers impressed, great bass control and revealed changes made to the system (even cables
)thanks again Ian, a great host.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Spencer, i’m pleased you enjoyed the day.
I wouldn’t worry about making changes to your DDDAC; i’d just enjoy what you’ve got.
I wouldn’t worry about making changes to your DDDAC; i’d just enjoy what you’ve got.
I echo the comments about Ian’s excellent hosting. I am sorry I had to leave a) before the pizza and b) before all the other DACs. I particularly wanted to hear the bricasti M1 as that is what I sold to buy the Dave but I still have fond memories of it and I remember it being a great dac. We all search for slightly different things from our systems and it was a great idea to have the DAC off. I remember saying to someone in the kitchen that it needs maybe two weeks before you know if something is a keeper but even so the one hour slots were good fun.
Thanks for inviting us and hosting a great dac bakeoff Ian, also for keeping all feed and watered. Cheers mate. :^ I really enjoyed everyone's company. it was also great putting names to faces.
As Spen ago said, the Dave did impress, the change over of cables that Nick did was instantly reavealing if you have this Chord dac I would not hesitate in talking to him about them, it certainly changed a superb dac into super dooper Dac with just a cable ! Will the cables work on other dacs ? Well, it is being evaluated.
(Shock, horror the cable dismissers cry, but you need to hear it)
As for grading the Dacs, we'll all I can say is that I liked them all. I know it is sitting on the fence, but I really did, they were are all top notch, and as everyone knows they all sound the same.
Different systems, different dacs, we all have our poisons. You have to try them at home in your system for a while then decide which suits you best, doesn't everyone know that's the only way to do it.
I currently use the Chevron ddDac 1794 because it gives me what I like and gels well with the rest of my set up, Would I change it for any on the day, maybe the Meitner ma-1 that Cameron brought, on the grounds that I think it might suit my system best, but I am a tight fisted Scot, so I'm keeping my Chevron 1794 for now.
Now does anyone want to here this again, before I tell my Mrs to hid it somewhere for a year.
As Spen ago said, the Dave did impress, the change over of cables that Nick did was instantly reavealing if you have this Chord dac I would not hesitate in talking to him about them, it certainly changed a superb dac into super dooper Dac with just a cable ! Will the cables work on other dacs ? Well, it is being evaluated.
(Shock, horror the cable dismissers cry, but you need to hear it)
As for grading the Dacs, we'll all I can say is that I liked them all. I know it is sitting on the fence, but I really did, they were are all top notch, and as everyone knows they all sound the same.
Different systems, different dacs, we all have our poisons. You have to try them at home in your system for a while then decide which suits you best, doesn't everyone know that's the only way to do it.
I currently use the Chevron ddDac 1794 because it gives me what I like and gels well with the rest of my set up, Would I change it for any on the day, maybe the Meitner ma-1 that Cameron brought, on the grounds that I think it might suit my system best, but I am a tight fisted Scot, so I'm keeping my Chevron 1794 for now.
Now does anyone want to here this again, before I tell my Mrs to hid it somewhere for a year.
Last edited by a moderator:
These are my reflections on the day.
CAVEAT
These are my views of hearing the DACs in my system with a range of rock/pop/jazz music. My system is nearfield listening with bookshelf speakers. I own a few DACs but for day-to-day listening I use a DDDAC which is a non-oversampling (NOS) DAC.
EQUIPMENT
Sony DVD player with Chevron Audio upgrades to SPDIF output
Phison PD2SE Pre/DAC
DIY Pass Aleph 60 monoblock amplifiers (60 watts per channel, single-ended Class A).
DIY CAOW1 speakers with Corian enclosures and external crossovers
RFC Venus RCA-RCA interconnects
Silver Mogwai balanced cables
Van Damme 4mm LCOFC speaker cable
Black Cat Silverstar! 75 II digital cables
Chord DAVE [Direct] £8500
DiDiT 212SE [Direct] £3700
DIY DDDAC inc Raspberry Pi streamer [] c£800
Bricasti M1SE [Direct] £10000
Chevron Audio ddDAC1794 [] c£850
Meitner MA1 [] £8500
Bryston BDA-2 [] £2700
Phison PD2SE internal DAC [] ????
[Direct] means we went direct from DAC to power amplifier bypassing the pre amplifier.
We had two attempts at getting the Phasure NOS1a to work with a PC running the XXHighEnd software but failed. I was really looking forward to hearing this.
Before everyone else arrived, we had a quick listen to Colin's new top secret prototype NOSDAC with a different chipset to one in his ddDAC1794. Despite there being some teething problems with losing sound on one channel, it shows great promise. It'll be interesting to see if this is an improvement over his existing DAC.
In addition to the DAVE, Nick also used his Chord Blu transport and WAVE cables to connect them. Nick did a demo which clearly showed that his cables offer a much cleaner sound than the stock cables when connecting these devices.
MUSIC
Each DAC was played for an hour with a mixture of music. To allow for some comparison, we planned to play two tracks on each DAC but having an hour allowed us to use three instead.
Malia/Boris Blank - Celestial Echo from their eponymous album.
Fink - Biscuits from the live album "Wheels Turn Beneath My Feet".
Ezio - Thirty and Confused from the album "Black Boots on Latin Feet"
As it was the end of a long day, we only played the three test tracks with the Bryston and the Phison.
REVIEW
I'm not going to review each DAC but will identify specifics where I think it makes sense to.
The Chord DAVE sounded different to everything else I heard. The clarity and detail were incredible especially in the bass notes but it wasn't thrown at you; everything had some space. It was a very different presentation than I have been used to and in the end, I found it all too much in my system; I longed for something less impressive. In a complimentary system, I can't imagine anyone not being overjoyed with the sound this DAC produces. I'm certain that had this been a shootout, with quickfire listens of a track or two at a time, that the DAVE would have been voted the best of the day.
I could happily live with any of the DACs we used [except the Chord DAVE as explained above]. At no point were there any digital nasties like over-sybilance on vocals unless they were on the recording.
If you listened to specific parts of a tune, the more expensive DACs [Chord DAVE, Bricasti M1SE and Meitner MA1] were better in a lot of areas but I don't think that they were any better at tying it all together. Whether this is worth the extra sums of money involved is up to you.
Each of the DACs took a different approach to design but all produced musical sounds to a high level. That's not to say that they all sounded the same because there were variations that were discernable on the three test tracks.
Nothing I heard today has convinced me to replace my NOSDAC.
CONCLUSION
Not all DACs sound the same.
Spending more money may give better sound but may not produce better music.
Synergy is as important with DACs as any other bits of kit.
Reviewing this many DACs in a day is hard work.
An hour is plenty of time to get the flavour of sound of a DAC.
FINALLY
Thanks to everyone involved in making this a really fun/interesting day.
CAVEAT
These are my views of hearing the DACs in my system with a range of rock/pop/jazz music. My system is nearfield listening with bookshelf speakers. I own a few DACs but for day-to-day listening I use a DDDAC which is a non-oversampling (NOS) DAC.
EQUIPMENT
Sony DVD player with Chevron Audio upgrades to SPDIF output
Phison PD2SE Pre/DAC
DIY Pass Aleph 60 monoblock amplifiers (60 watts per channel, single-ended Class A).
DIY CAOW1 speakers with Corian enclosures and external crossovers
RFC Venus RCA-RCA interconnects
Silver Mogwai balanced cables
Van Damme 4mm LCOFC speaker cable
Black Cat Silverstar! 75 II digital cables
Chord DAVE [Direct] £8500
DiDiT 212SE [Direct] £3700
DIY DDDAC inc Raspberry Pi streamer [] c£800
Bricasti M1SE [Direct] £10000
Chevron Audio ddDAC1794 [] c£850
Meitner MA1 [] £8500
Bryston BDA-2 [] £2700
Phison PD2SE internal DAC [] ????
[Direct] means we went direct from DAC to power amplifier bypassing the pre amplifier.
We had two attempts at getting the Phasure NOS1a to work with a PC running the XXHighEnd software but failed. I was really looking forward to hearing this.
Before everyone else arrived, we had a quick listen to Colin's new top secret prototype NOSDAC with a different chipset to one in his ddDAC1794. Despite there being some teething problems with losing sound on one channel, it shows great promise. It'll be interesting to see if this is an improvement over his existing DAC.
In addition to the DAVE, Nick also used his Chord Blu transport and WAVE cables to connect them. Nick did a demo which clearly showed that his cables offer a much cleaner sound than the stock cables when connecting these devices.
MUSIC
Each DAC was played for an hour with a mixture of music. To allow for some comparison, we planned to play two tracks on each DAC but having an hour allowed us to use three instead.
Malia/Boris Blank - Celestial Echo from their eponymous album.
Fink - Biscuits from the live album "Wheels Turn Beneath My Feet".
Ezio - Thirty and Confused from the album "Black Boots on Latin Feet"
As it was the end of a long day, we only played the three test tracks with the Bryston and the Phison.
REVIEW
I'm not going to review each DAC but will identify specifics where I think it makes sense to.
The Chord DAVE sounded different to everything else I heard. The clarity and detail were incredible especially in the bass notes but it wasn't thrown at you; everything had some space. It was a very different presentation than I have been used to and in the end, I found it all too much in my system; I longed for something less impressive. In a complimentary system, I can't imagine anyone not being overjoyed with the sound this DAC produces. I'm certain that had this been a shootout, with quickfire listens of a track or two at a time, that the DAVE would have been voted the best of the day.
I could happily live with any of the DACs we used [except the Chord DAVE as explained above]. At no point were there any digital nasties like over-sybilance on vocals unless they were on the recording.
If you listened to specific parts of a tune, the more expensive DACs [Chord DAVE, Bricasti M1SE and Meitner MA1] were better in a lot of areas but I don't think that they were any better at tying it all together. Whether this is worth the extra sums of money involved is up to you.
Each of the DACs took a different approach to design but all produced musical sounds to a high level. That's not to say that they all sounded the same because there were variations that were discernable on the three test tracks.
Nothing I heard today has convinced me to replace my NOSDAC.
CONCLUSION
Not all DACs sound the same.
Spending more money may give better sound but may not produce better music.
Synergy is as important with DACs as any other bits of kit.
Reviewing this many DACs in a day is hard work.
An hour is plenty of time to get the flavour of sound of a DAC.
FINALLY
Thanks to everyone involved in making this a really fun/interesting day.
Last edited by a moderator:
Spencer, as Ian said, your dddac sounded great mate, they all did, enjoy it. Colin can tinker with it but they might not be night and and day changes, depending what's in yours. It might be suttle to your existing set up / fine tuning etc but he does know his nos dacs, he has been making them for a while now.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeh, that's mine Nick. :doh: Really sorry I left it in your machine mate. I 'll pm you my address if you could post, much appreciated.
Des.
Interesting. Personally those 3 test tracks I'm not familiar with, I suppose in some ways comparing presentation with unfamiliar music may be advantageous but I'm always more interested to hear kit with music I know inside out. Some of my own personal test tracks are perhaps not even considered well mastered or great recordings but it's what I like and what I know. I also consider how equipment replays poor recordings, some people might avoid them but my primary consideration is always the music and I'll be forgiving about audio excellence.
Am I right to assume other stuff was played with each DAC ? As Beeray says above I'd be interested to have a quick list of stuff off the top of someone's head.
Am I right to assume other stuff was played with each DAC ? As Beeray says above I'd be interested to have a quick list of stuff off the top of someone's head.
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