Is this a joke!? Just seen the interior of a "top flight" streamer

[Shadders]

I think you might find Rob disagrees but tell him on Headfi he has a page there and is normally quick to respond.

Hi,
The incompatibility may be due to the implementation of the SPDIF interface output. The Chord site states :

"the Hugo M Scaler can be used with other DACs with suitable inputs"

Nowhere does it state that a DAC must cope with 4ns jitter, or that incompatibility issues exist.

Regards,
Shadders.

 

[tuga]

I miss the old smileys...

 

[newlash09]

Perhaps, as you seem good at reasoning, you should take some time to think about that. It seems to indicate that your hated 'subjectivists' may not lack the skills and critical awareness quite as much as you believe.

The only thing that can be measured in a hifi component is its weight

 

[DomT]

I think you might find Rob disagrees but tell him on Headfi he has a page there and is normally quick to respond.

Seconds away, round 2!

 

[George 47]

Hi,
The incompatibility may be due to the implementation of the SPDIF interface output. The Chord site states :

"the Hugo M Scaler can be used with other DACs with suitable inputs"

Nowhere does it state that a DAC must cope with 4ns jitter, or that incompatibility issues exist.

Regards,
Shadders.

Oh dear......for someone who uses the internet for information. Try this reply by Rob Watts, who says he designed the MScalar for Chord DACs.

 

[Juancho]

I miss the old smileys...

I miss the old WAM.........

 

[Shadders]

Oh dear......for someone who uses the internet for information. Try this reply by Rob Watts, who says he designed the MScalar for Chord DACs.

Hi,
If you know the answer is in that video link, then repeat the answer here.

From Sterophile :
"I also used the M Scaler with my PS Audio DirectStream and Mark Levinson No.30.6 DACs, using a single S/PDIF connection."

There are issues with some DAC's, but not others.

This thread discussion is about low jitter outputs on a streamer. It may be engineering excellence, but to claim it affects the DAC analogue output is utter rot.

Regards,
Shadders.

EDIT: clarification

 

[DomT]

Hi,
If you know the answer is in that video link, then repeat the answer here.

From Sterophile :
"I also used the M Scaler with my PS Audio DirectStream and Mark Levinson No.30.6 DACs, using a single S/PDIF connection."

There are issues with some DAC's, but not others.

This thread discussion is about low jitter outputs on a streamer. It may be engineering excellence, but to claim it affects the DAC analogue output is utter rot.

Regards,
Shadders.

EDIT: clarification

This thread is about a photo of the internals of the Grimm unit.

 

[rabski]

I miss the old WAM.........

Overall, I don't.

It has to be said though, that in the old days a thread like this would have lasted about as long as some of the people posting. For the objectivists, the measurement is 'approximately 30 minutes on a good day'.

 

[DomT]

Oh dear......for someone who uses the internet for information. Try this reply by Rob Watts, who says he designed the MScalar for Chord DACs.

Yes in the video Rob Watts explains very clearly why non-Chord DACs may not be appropriate for the MScaler and he makes the point twice that he designed the MScaler for Chord DACs. People just need to watch the Rob Watts interview in the video.

 

[TheFlash]

The only thing that can be measured in a hifi component is its weight

And this is an excellent way of choosing an amplifier

 

[TheFlash]

I miss the old smileys...

I miss the old WAM.........

I miss the Old Spice.

Shall we leave it there before it gets messy?

 

[TheFlash]

This thread discussion is about low jitter outputs on a streamer.

It started as a discussion about the amount of circuitry inside, and the price of, a streamer. Jitter was only one of the design criteria which the manufacturer’s Technical Director mentioned. It’s obviously the only one you want to talk about because it’s obviously the only one you understand.
That’s me, generous to a fault. Which is a phrase which I’ve just realised has two meanings. How delightful.

It may be engineering excellence, but to claim it affects the DAC analogue output is utter rot.

Yes, only (analogue) noise could do that.

Regards,
Shadders.

EDIT: clarification

Rearguards

 

[Warszawa]

I miss the old smileys...

 

[StingRay]

And from my pre to my active SCM40A's I went from Canare L4E6 Star-Quad to Belden 1800F and prefer it. I had initially settled on the star-quad for rejection of noise but then read this by Blue Jeans cable about capacitance and thought I'd give the Belden a shot. They stayed and I sold on the Star-Quad.

Belden have a good rep, I nearly bought some of theirs but the shipping and import fees put me off.

 

[Juancho]

No jitter here.....

 

[Nestor Turton]

If you can’t hear any difference between servers why would you possibly want to listen to a server “that has better measurements” if you cannot hear any differences? That just crazy logic. But to help us understand which specific server measurements do you think that you will be able to hear the difference between?

It was suggested that there were significantly quieter server/Streamers than my 2012 Mac mini and using one would reduce IMD, which in turn would yield better sound quality. As I said I heard Innuos and Melco offerings and neithef makes my shortlist as a potential replacement for my Mac mini when it eventually goes through the wormholes is space to a distant planet where it can live out a typically Apploid lifestyle.

The measurements that convinced me to try a 2012 Mac mini were as follows.

The jitter analysis on its optical output playing 1kHz -80 dB test tone sampled @ 44.1 KHz showed jitter below 15ps (peak at 1KHz) Random jitter across its audio band averaged only 10ps.



There is no measurable clock drift.

Noise measured at -92dB with a 16 bit signal and -144dB with a 24 bit signal using -6O dB using a 1KHz notch out test tone. Absence of random noise shows electrical interference is not a problem.



So measurement coupled with my own listening tests mean I made the right decision in staying with my 2012 Mac min than moving to an expensive boutique server/streamer from the aforementioned companies.

I realise that things change and there may be another company that makes a replacement for my Mac mini that will see me out for the rest of my days and as implied by some posters hereon will sound better than what I have.

Sound quality is important for me, but so is build quality, flexibility, customer support and longevity. Ideally it would run JRiver Media Centre as this fulfils all my software needs. I do not use Internet subscription services and like to disable these if present. My firewall blocks Internet access to and from my music server in any case.

My approach seems logical to me. I’m afraid somebody suggesting A is better than B without supporting data will not be enough to get me out of my old rocking chair.

Now I really have overstayed my welcome on this thread - so whatever music server you use and whatever method you use to choose it, I hope you enjoy it and if you don’t switch to Mac mini and you just might.

 

[Nestor Turton]

Do you have a link to Benchmarks test of cables because the one on their site is broken. Studios seem to use Mogami more than Canare, which some say sounds better, Mogami is not expensive hifi cable, it is pro cable.

How reliable are manufacturers measurements?

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...-the-importance-of-star-quad-microphone-cable

 

[tuga]

my 2012 Mac mini

If you don't know that already, LPSUs are available for the 2012 mini.

 

[Southeast]

I agree. But maybe you would rethink that if you fabricated, sold and had to provide technical assistance for 100s of items.

We've been through this many times. Boxes are often big and empty to match a standard width or the rest of the range, fancy electronic components are used and loudly advertised and fascias are made thick to look more luxurious and be priced accordingly, prices are set for a target audience (and gear would not be expensive if it didn't sell)... That's High End.


Digital sound processing is performed by computers.
So long as the board fits the processing power requirements for that particular application what really matters is software, power supply and grounding (OK, I'll add clocking).

Interesting comment.
I think with streamers a part of the price goes into updates
Like software changes.
I read before that with mobile phones certain companies are better than others for updating.
So i think that plays a part.
I personally use a allo boss2 with volumio as i do not have alot of money but with the streamer mentioned maybe with that streamer they
Used a case that was to big
That leads to the thinking of the thing being over priced.
But i have no idea how to tell if something is a clever design.
Can i ask how easy is it to use the software it comes with as i know
How hard writing such programs can be as my friend writes computer programs for a living.
It pays very well and that will as i said be part of the price and then their is the pride of ownership tax.
I met a fashion designer before and he told me how many brands overcharge on purpose as people will pay and it makes some people think they are getting better quality.