Playing 78s

NeilM

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Anyone else interested in playing shellac? I have always been interested, and since retirement have actively collected discs. The early stuff, 1901 - 1914, and particularly Russian recordings. And early 20th century recordings of veteran artists, that is those who had major careers in the 19th century.

I have a few entirely mechanical machines on which I could play them, but there are issues of wear, and volumes aren't easily regulated, except by putting a sock in it (it being the horn). The earliest, a 1907 Gramophone Company ("HMV") cabinet model kicks up a terrific racket, even with a soft tone needle, and the latest, a c.1935 Expert open horn is even louder.

From an information retrieval perspective, a modern electrical player has its advantages. And a modern pick up won't wear an irreplaceable disc, the volume is easy to control, and a 32band equalizer is helpful in lessening low- and high- frequency nasties. But unlike the early days of LP, three speed record decks are now very few on the ground, and those with a wide speed variation control even fewer. This latter is a big deal with earlier discs. Few were actually cut at 78 rpm, which only became a standard later. For instance, early Victors commonly play at around 72 rpm; Odeons can whizz round at speeds in the mid to high 80s.

The first part of the reproducing chain is that DJ favourite, a Technics 1200. Fitted with a mod produced by K.A.B. in the USA, it can cope with most speeds, except the fastest Odeons. And because it's a Direct Drive mechanism, with no sprung suspension, it doesn't going wobbling about when asked to turn a very heavy disc at high speed. A more elegant solution than the reading lamp voltage dropper I used to employ with a Garrard 301. The Technics arm is adequate, and most importantly has a standard interchangeable headshell. That's important because early discs call for a variety of stylus sizes, and swapping headshell and cartridge is less fiddly than sliding stylus assemblies in and out of a cartridge. I use Shure M78 bodies with a couple of Expert styli, and Shure's own.

Equalization is the next issue. Or rather, the lack of it. Early discs weren't recorded electrically, and there was no equalization, RIAA or otherwise. Play any 78 through an RIAA circuit, and it will have too much bass and too little top. But most every phono pre-amp comes with RIAA equalization, for free. My solution was to feed the output from the phono stage to a 32-band graphic equalizer, with its sliders set to a mirror image of the RIAA curve. Resultant output is approximately "flat".

The results can surprise. OK, orchestral sound is a wheezing oompah band, and piano too often a tinkling travesty. But the voices of those singers born as long ago as the 1840s can sound amazingly vivid and present.
 
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Andy Stephenson

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My wife inherited some 78 rpm discs and really had no interest in them so we donated them to a guy we know who runs a WW2 living museum.

He's really into all that and happens to collect 78s.

So when I had a look through the discs we had I found one that was a recording of a Sir Arthur Bomber Harris speech on one side and the in flight
conversation of the crew of a Lancaster bomber over Germany in 1943

You should have seen his face! It was a genuine WOW moment!

Andy
 
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Jules_S

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I do have a beautiful Alba gramophone and a selection of 78's but they only get an occasional dusting-off and playing. I've not worked through them all yet but I'm gradually sorting them into keep and discard piles. I'm certainly not into them as much as you are! I do agree though that despite the obvious limitations in terms of absolute fidelity, the emotional connection to the singers is incredible - there is such a presence to their voices even if, as you say, adjusting the volume is a pretty much impossible task.
 

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montesquieu

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I have quite a collection of 78s, a few going back to the 20s, lots from the early to mid-30s. From a classical perspective there were quite a number of subscription editions - of Schubert, Schumann and Wolf Lieder for example, or Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven string quartets and these can often be in quite good condition when you find them. It's a marvellous thing to put on an artifact from 90 years ago and extract beautiful music from it. I have quite a bit of this and also quite a bit of 40s jazz - Basie, Ellington, Armstrong ... shorter stuff (Lieder, piano miniatures from Chopin and so on) work well in the 10-inch 3 and a bit minute format though some of the jazz sounds like they are just getting started when the side stops. It's a pain listening to longer classical works though I have a set of 12in 78s from the 40s of Schubert song cycles (of 20 songs) and you can get a couple of songs a side - can be quite enjoyable as you do focus on the music, it can never be background if you are physically changing the record every 6 or 7 minutes

78s are capable of surprising fidelity and can be wonderfully musical, especially the later ones with narrower grooves from the late 40s onwards. You really need more than one tip - 4.0 mil for early stuff (as opposed to 0.65-0.7mil for a modern stereo record), 3.2-2.5 for later 30s and 40s, down to 2.5 mil for 1950s. Most commercial '78' cartridges out there are 2.5mil. I got a set of styli from Expert Stylus (ESCO) that fit a Shure M44/M55. Though most of the time I use a mono cartridge by Miyajima (it's physically the same as the current Miyajima Kotetu 78 though it's branded with the name of Noriko Miyajima's original Japanese company, Edison.

I used to have a separate box for early equalisation - really you need this even for mono LP for recordings right into the 1960s, as RIAA though supposedly universal from 1956, in practice wasn't in place everywhere. The box was an Esoteric Re-Equalizer and it was capable of playing a huge range of RIAA settings, and comes with a PDF book you can print off where even quite obscure 78 labels can be looked up - it's complicated by the fact that labels varied their EQ settings over time so dates matter too. I have variable EQ in my Allnic H7000V phono stage but it only has four settings for rolloff and four for turnover as opposed to six - it's fine for most 1930s-on 78s right and for all mono from the LP-era but doesn't have 'flat' settings you sometimes get in very eary 78s - I think a reasonable trade-off as these are mostly curiosities anyway unless you are looking for museum-standard transcription options.

For a short list of EQ settings this is quite useful: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/mixlabls.htm

As with all mono, it sounds best from two speakers - the ears and brain resolve the instruments across musical space and properly done the illusion is not just of front to back depth (as you'd expect) but also some measure of side to side, once your ears adjust. A good mono cartridge is big, wide and deep. You might be surprised at what you can get out of a 78 with the right effort - I've had people truly astonished listening to mine.



 
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hearhere

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Have you used the early Acoustical QUAD Control Unit? It has a number of filters with 2 specifically for 78s. In addition it has comprehensive bass and trebble tone controls and filters. This mono unit dates from the days when many collectors were playing 78s, so perhaps this could get your slope adjusted quite well for most records7
Early Quad Control Unit.jpg
 
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montesquieu

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These sorts of preamps with pre-sets were quite common in the 50s ... unfortunately while many power amp circuts from that era still stand up well, the preamps don't really cut it against what's possible today. If you look what's provided is also just a very limited group of the most common options for LP and 78 ... useful in the day but even then there were preamps (lots of them) that provided far more control over turnover and rolloff, and therefore were far more flexible across a far greater variety of records.

Could be useful in an all vintage nostalgia system - I did actually set one of these up once, with a single Quad electrostatic, TL12 monoblock, tricked out Lenco with upgraded arm, several mono Ortofon 'SPU'-type pickup heads, and so on - but my conclusion was that well-done two speaker mono sounds much better, especially to ears used to stereo. Depends whether you want a museum piece or to extract the best possible sound. I believe that people never heard 78s back in the day as well as they can be played now - there's far more information in the groove than many imagine - and to a significant extent this also applies to mono LPs.

Much of what we describe as width and depth (and even height) in stereo replay aren't heard by the ears so much as assembled in the brain out of cues provided by the system, and the brain needs a degree of training (acquired through the experience of listening) plus to some extent the application of imagination to experience this fully. I suspect the training we get as audiophiles is what makes two speaker mono more satisfying than the single speaker variety - as I mentioned, two speaker mono with input from a quality mono cartridge can be experienced as really quite vast - not just deep but able to fill the space between the speakers with discrete groups of instruments or vocalists. If all you are getting is a vertical slot with everything lumped in the middle, you are seriously missing out.
 
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NeilM

Newbie
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Aug 5, 2022
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
My wife inherited some 78 rpm discs and really had no interest in them so we donated them to a guy we know who runs a WW2 living museum.

He's really into all that and happens to collect 78s.

So when I had a look through the discs we had I found one that was a recording of a Sir Arthur Bomber Harris speech on one side and the in flight
conversation of the crew of a Lancaster bomber over Germany in 1943

You should have seen his face! It was a genuine WOW moment!

Andy
Not a commercial record, presumably!
 

NeilM

Newbie
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Aug 5, 2022
46
30
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I do have a beautiful Alba gramophone and a selection of 78's but they only get an occasional dusting-off and playing. I've not worked through them all yet but I'm gradually sorting them into keep and discard piles. I'm certainly not into them as much as you are! I do agree though that despite the obvious limitations in terms of absolute fidelity, the emotional connection to the singers is incredible - there is such a presence to their voices even if, as you say, adjusting the volume is a pretty much impossible task.
Now here's a strange coincidence. The guy from whom I buy many of my records was once, as a young man, Company Secretary of Alfred Balcombe Ltd, makers of Alba gramophones and record players.
 
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NeilM

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Aug 5, 2022
46
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HiFi Trade?
  1. No
I have quite a collection of 78s, a few going back to the 20s, lots from the early to mid-30s. From a classical perspective there were quite a number of subscription editions - of Schubert, Schumann and Wolf Lieder for example, or Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven string quartets and these can often be in quite good condition when you find them. It's a marvellous thing to put on an artifact from 90 years ago and extract beautiful music from it. I have quite a bit of this and also quite a bit of 40s jazz - Basie, Ellington, Armstrong ... shorter stuff (Lieder, piano miniatures from Chopin and so on) work well in the 10-inch 3 and a bit minute format though some of the jazz sounds like they are just getting started when the side stops. It's a pain listening to longer classical works though I have a set of 12in 78s from the 40s of Schubert song cycles (of 20 songs) and you can get a couple of songs a side - can be quite enjoyable as you do focus on the music, it can never be background if you are physically changing the record every 6 or 7 minutes

78s are capable of surprising fidelity and can be wonderfully musical, especially the later ones with narrower grooves from the late 40s onwards. You really need more than one tip - 4.0 mil for early stuff (as opposed to 0.65-0.7mil for a modern stereo record), 3.2-2.5 for later 30s and 40s, down to 2.5 mil for 1950s. Most commercial '78' cartridges out there are 2.5mil. I got a set of styli from Expert Stylus (ESCO) that fit a Shure M44/M55. Though most of the time I use a mono cartridge by Miyajima (it's physically the same as the current Miyajima Kotetu 78 though it's branded with the name of Noriko Miyajima's original Japanese company, Edison.

I used to have a separate box for early equalisation - really you need this even for mono LP for recordings right into the 1960s, as RIAA though supposedly universal from 1956, in practice wasn't in place everywhere. The box was an Esoteric Re-Equalizer and it was capable of playing a huge range of RIAA settings, and comes with a PDF book you can print off where even quite obscure 78 labels can be looked up - it's complicated by the fact that labels varied their EQ settings over time so dates matter too. I have variable EQ in my Allnic H7000V phono stage but it only has four settings for rolloff and four for turnover as opposed to six - it's fine for most 1930s-on 78s right and for all mono from the LP-era but doesn't have 'flat' settings you sometimes get in very eary 78s - I think a reasonable trade-off as these are mostly curiosities anyway unless you are looking for museum-standard transcription options.

For a short list of EQ settings this is quite useful: https://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/mixlabls.htm

As with all mono, it sounds best from two speakers - the ears and brain resolve the instruments across musical space and properly done the illusion is not just of front to back depth (as you'd expect) but also some measure of side to side, once your ears adjust. A good mono cartridge is big, wide and deep. You might be surprised at what you can get out of a 78 with the right effort - I've had people truly astonished listening to mine.




I must agree that longer works are seldom a success with so many side changes. I had a cabinet full of the complete Beethoven symphonies and concertos - and eventually gave them away. I still have those classy grey volumes of the Sibelius edition - somehow they represent - to me at least - a key cultural milestone.

That ubiquitous 2.5 mil stylus, though, as you say squarely aimed at late electricals, has one perhaps surprising use - some Gramophone & Typewriter discs made in London (1900-1907) play best with that narrow point.
 
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NeilM

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Aug 5, 2022
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  1. No
Have you used the early Acoustical QUAD Control Unit? It has a number of filters with 2 specifically for 78s. In addition it has comprehensive bass and trebble tone controls and filters. This mono unit dates from the days when many collectors were playing 78s, so perhaps this could get your slope adjusted quite well for most records7
Early Quad Control Unit.jpg
I had one in the past, but I mostly used it with the Quad radio receivers I had. Those equalizations are very limited, and really address records collected only since the war. But that's a fine example of the model.
 

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