Can’t decide whether to go vinyl

[Neilb]

If its convenience then just get a squeeze box and use your PC.

I love vinyl and will probably always have a turntable. If you can only afford one then just get a CD player for convenience. But then again thats like saying just eat fast food everyday. CD players are really very good these days. Good enough anyway.

Vinyl is much more fun to use though IMO. It feels much more intimate for some inexplicable reason and more direct. I've been without a TT for 4 years now since I've been living abroad and I've really missed it. I couldn't buy LP's here anyway as by the time I take them home on my motorbike they'd literally have melted!! Its almost 40 degrees here somedays.

Its just for me I like mechanical things more than electronic. Watching valves glow and turntables spin is a pure delight. Its like the thing is alive and so is the music!

My advice is (if you're on a budget) to get something like a Rega Appollo and then a basic Pro-Ject deck to see how you enjoy playing LP's. The basic Pro-Jects will easily sound good enough to really open your eyes/ears to what vinyl is all about. It doesn't have to be this huge financial leap. My old Project Debut 15 years ago was what got me hooked. That and the fact that all cool dance, hip hop and electronica was more readily available on Vinyl at the time.

 

[speedysteve]

I mucked about with recommnended DACs - Lavry and Benchmark to name but two and some nice Transports but was always left feeling there must be more to the sound than that.

Even a relatively cheap TT setup seemed more convincing - perhaps I was ripe to be re-convinced...

Since then and 4 decks on I am getting close to what I'd call a good set up - A good 12" arm is next.

But even on what I have it is startling good even on music that used to irritate me on CD - Take Duffy's albumn - I have it on CD and Vinyl. Was able to listen to the whole thing last night on vinyl and enjoy every moment - could not have done that on CD. Now why is that?

Older stuff say 70's sound dead and flat on CD - On vinyl it sounds like it used to.

Don't get me started on Peak limiting on modern crap!

My wife likened the sound between CD and vinyl as that between a fluorescent bulb and an incandescent one - the former is a bit buzzy and irritating the later give a more natural light.

I made a record cleaning machine and as long as there are no scratches surface noise is not an issue for me at all.

Love owning and using proper sized format of LP.

I do now stream music (Spotify) mostly at work and in prospecting new artists I would other wise be buying blind.

Long live vinyl - I am sure it will!

Even my daughter likes vinyl - has a Rega P3 and OL modded arm - so it must be cool

 

[avinunca1]

My experience is that I will listen to LP after LP but with CD I am likely to

have turned the music off after quite a short time. It doesn't hold my attention.

 

[Neilb]

avinunca1 wrote:

My experience is that I will listen to LP after LP but with CD I am likely tohave turned the music off after quite a short time. It doesn't hold my attention.

I find the same when, at first listen, there isn't a great deal of difference.

 

[themadlatvian]

Get both.

You'll end up with both anyway.

:^

 

[Matt J]

Like sodders, I quit Vinyl ages ago due to being constantly underwhelmed with the whole thing.

I was a lot wealthier at the time and bought a load of vinyl (both old and new) that I didn't own on any other format, since then I have become poor and haven't had the funds to replace all the albums for either CDs or downloads so I'm missing out on a fair chunk of my music.

I'm seriously considering another simple deck like a Planar 3 or similar, even though I swore I'd never bother with the whole rigmarole ever again :doh:

Not sure whether you have any or not, but if I didn't have any vinyl I wouldn't bother if I were you, it's not worth a 1/10th of the hassle involved.

 

[travisty]

Interesting to hear all these viewpoints... I got into vinyl precisely because of access to lots of cheap music. I found that I could buy vinyl for a third to a tenth of what I paid for a CD. I don't think I have bought more than a dozen records for more than what the CD would have cost. I live in Japan, which is also the land of reasonably good reissues (70s Japanese pressings of 60s Blue Notes can be really really good), and I have not yet got bit by the "it's gotta be an original" bug so this is a mitigating factor. I am just now starting to think that I wouldn't mind buying new music on vinyl. That gives me pause because I know it's going to cost.

Having a TT has allowed me to buy large-ish joblots of music which looked interesting but which I did not know because I figured if I didn't like it, it would get offered back out in a joblot. That has allowed me to discover lots and lots of music that I would not have otherwise purchased. For me, that has been the best thing about getting back into vinyl several years ago. I must have 40 albums of Oscar Peterson, including stuff which no CD store seems to have. Some of it I might be able to order still, but some I know I cannot. And ordering one of those on CD would mean I spent as much as I will spend trying to find the next ten 70s pressings of classical music that I have yet to try. The process of discovery has been wonderful, and I frankly never would have discovered much of it if I'd had to pay the price to buy the CDs. This has been the real prize of getting into vinyl - the music - and so much of it out there to discover.

In the process of accumulating thousands of records, listening to lots of music, and listening more often than I did when I only had CDs, I have found that a good analog front end will produce magic, and spending some time learning what equipment goes together makes things a lot better.

In understanding what physical processes are involved in getting heart-rending, shiver-giving music from a tiny hard rock glued onto the end of a stick bouncing around from side to side in a ditch, sending a signal through wires and boxes, with current transformed to voltage, then amplified several thousandfold so as I can turn the electrical signal back into something which transduces the electrical signal back into a physical medium (driver pushing air) 'spitting' it out through a set of horns... has given me an enormous respect for circuitry design and the physical engineering of musical reproduction, and the art of the possible. That respect and curiosity has allowed me to improve my system by looking for (and finding) equipment I otherwise would not have dared try, and that curiosity and respect when combined with an appreciation of the analog playback design engineering aspect has allowed me to meet and correspond with some extremely interesting people - some who are in the business but who share a passion for discovery more than a commercial desire to sell me an X, and some who aren't in the business so can spend that much more effort making mistakes in order to learn.

 

[Guest]

earlofsodbury wrote:

OP: careful - vinylists are like smackheads - keen to get everyone sticking the needle in.Just remember, it's a fragile, time-consuming and flawed medium, and many of the claims for its superiority are based on a combination of hearing horrible 1980s CD players, and equally having heard vinyl replay systems that cost half as much as my house!

The in-between land most of us occupy levels the playing field a lot, and a combination of good modern DACs and (for example) high bitrate audio files means that streaming in particular is both massively more convenient and often capable of superior sound compared with price-comparable vinyl replay...

BTW - if streaming has become daunting, perhaps your investment should be in a more user-friendly front-end and/or software?

I guess your choice should be mediated by the medium that you have the most of in your music collection: if you have a lot of CD go with that, if you have a lot vinyl, go with that. If it's open-ended, then bear in mind you can get anywhere from 2 to 10 CDs or download albums for the cost of most vinyl albums ;-)

churz, sod

There are alot of wise words in there. The end result is vinyl takes a bit of graft and a lot of trawling of mkts and second hand record shops . Which i don't mind and also a mint copy of some records can be had as little as £3 or £4 but spend £20 on a brand new piece of vinyl and its a shit pressing . Well that bit pisses me off no end :grrr:

 

[MCRU]

If I can be allowed to comment, I just re-built my entire system after 10 years with crap, now I have a semi-decent what I call respectable system. As far as vinyl is concerned, a rega P2 with good arm and stylus can be had for £200 ish or less, even a project basic will do to start, record cleaners start at £40 and there are 100's of markets and fairs selling decent vinyl, went to one last week at huddersfield george hotel and picked up some real bargains of good quality 12" singles and LP's, granted I have 1500 12" singles in the garage from my DJ'ing days, just got a P3 last week and an RB250 arm for peanuts so my view is for the costs, vinyl is a no brainer, plus it is exciting for an old man like me shopping for nostalgic funk and soul 12 inchers from the 70's and 80's!

 

[rabski]

To (mis)quote John Peel, vinyl is like life. It's got surface noise, but it'sreal.

Sorry Paul, but the anti-vinyl posts always seem to come from people who've had serious problems with a TT setup. From the opposing point of view, I've had issues setting up turntables, but I've also had major problems with DC players and DACs too.

My current setup probably has a more costly vinyl source, but only because I've spent heaps of time and money on the phono stage. To replicate my turntable wouldn't be massively costly, though it would take time, and I've equally spent endless hours modifying the transport and re-building the DAC with silly components. In terms of resale value, there probably isn't a lot in it.

The CD source is superb, but the vinyl source is better. I don't care how they measure: with comparable recordings, vinyl is simply more pleasurable to listen to. CD has you sitting down and marvelling at how good it is, but vinyl has you tapping your feet and listening to the music.

Unless I've missed something, that's the point isn't it?

 

[MCRU]

rabski wrote:

but vinyl has you tapping your feet and listening to the music.Unless I've missed something, that's the point isn't it?

I agree, there is just something about vinyl, it was the same with laserdiscs when they were popular! Must be the 12 inches!

 

[mrwippy]

rabski wrote:

Sorry Paul, but the anti-vinyl posts always seem to come from people who've had serious problems with a TT setup. From the opposing point of view, I've had issues setting up turntables, but I've also had major problems with DC players and DACs too.

The CD source is superb, but the vinyl source is better. I don't care how they measure: with comparable recordings, vinyl is simply more pleasurable to listen to. CD has you sitting down and marvelling at how good it is, but vinyl has you tapping your feet and listening to the music.

Unless I've missed something, that's the point isn't it?

I was also a Paul saying don't bother - I've never had a problem with turntables, find setting them up a very minor issue, but only use a turntable on the grounds that I've got loads of vinyl.

Oh, and my feet tap irrespective of the source.

What it comes down to, I feel, is the only true reason to go for a turntable, is because you want to 'go for a turntable' however you want to justify that. If I didn't have a collection of vinyl, getting a turntable would be something I'd never really consider.

Paul

 

[Uncle Ants]

mrwippy wrote:

I was also a Paul saying don't bother - I've never had a problem with turntables, find setting them up a very minor issue, but only use a turntable on the grounds that I've got loads of vinyl.Oh, and my feet tap irrespective of the source.

What it comes down to, I feel, is the only true reason to go for a turntable, is because you want to 'go for a turntable' however you want to justify that. If I didn't have a collection of vinyl, getting a turntable would be something I'd never really consider.

Actually the only true reason to go for a turntable is if you want to play records. Whether that's because you have lots of records already, or have none but you fancy the idea of collecting them, or because you like the sound of them ... whatever, at the end of the day, the spinner is just what plays them. I know plenty of people who started with no records but haven't regretted it.

The thing about records as opposed to CDs or downloads is that there is something about them that for many people makes the buying, collecting and playing of them something more than just the music. Any avid record collector (the italics are deliberate) who tells you "it's just about the music" is deluded or fibbing. I am making no value judgements here. I'm not saying if this is a good or bad thing. I'm just saying it's so - it isn't just about the sound (if it's about that at all) - it's a life style choice and one which will suit some people and not others.

On second hand records I've bought a lot, never paid a lot and had good ones and bad ones - you learn to take the crunchy with the smooth.

Record and record player maintenance is about as hard as you want to make it.

 

[MCRU]

Is it also the fact that a record player spinning a piece of vinyl looks a lot nicer than a metal box with lights on or not as the case may be!

 

[MJ.]

Matt J wrote:

Like sodders, I quit Vinyl ages ago due to being constantly underwhelmed with the whole thing.AND

I'm seriously considering another simple deck like a Planar 3 or similar, even though I swore I'd never bother with the whole rigmarole ever again :doh:

..................... and isn't that entirely what Vinyl is about, can't live with it, can't live without it ! My Vinyl rig is cheap, easy to run / use and gives as much pleasure as far more expensive rigs I used to run. It's a personal thing, but I think the (immense) joy I get from listening toVinyl far outweighs the (slight) inconvenience

 

[rocky raccoon]

Vinyl is a pain in the arse for all of the reasons listed above. If you can't be bothered with wet / vacuum cleaning records don't bother. If you can't be arsed with alignment protractors & spending hours dialling in the set up - don't bother. If you don't own more than 50 records now, don't bother.

But if you are prepared to deal with all of the above then you will be rewarded with the most natural musical presentation and in some cases ambience retreival which leaves digital sources behind.

IMHO naturally !

Best regards,

rr

 

[Uncle Ants]

rocky raccoon wrote:

Vinyl is a pain in the arse for all of the reasons listed above. If you can't be bothered with wet / vacuum cleaning records don't bother. If you can't be arsed with alignment protractors & spending hours dialling in the set up - don't bother. If you don't own more than 50 records now, don't bother.

... and I'd say this is hyperbole ... Also IMHO of course ;-)

Seriously though, do you honestly believe that the only people who get significant pleasure from vinyl assiduously wet/vacuum clean their records and spend hours fiddling with alignment protractors and dialling in setup? Most people certainly don't, though some people may like to.

 

[rockmeister]

agree with the uncle....I never cleaned a record until about three years ago....jt stored em carefully and used an anti static brush.....vinyl isnt a fetish...its a sensible way of storing analog music and better than the alternative (tape) for most of us. Its easy to get decent playback and there are millions of SH records on the market quite cheap (less than a new CD for sure, if you trawl markets and car boots etc) BUT....

I dont agree about it being the ONLY good sound source. As I posted earlier....256Kb and above sampling and SACD both have that natural musical sound that OLD digital music sources just couldn't capture. IF you've £10,000 worth of deck arm and cartridge, then you may find them sounding better than a 3000 cd spinner, but to suggest that a Project with £50 cart is going to sound better that same CD player is BOOOOOOLLOCKS of the highest order. Its just another source.

All down to standards....whats sauce for the goose etc etc :zzzz:

 

[mrwippy]

Uncle Ants wrote:

mrwippy wrote:

I was also a Paul saying don't bother - I've never had a problem with turntables, find setting them up a very minor issue, but only use a turntable on the grounds that I've got loads of vinyl.Oh, and my feet tap irrespective of the source.

What it comes down to, I feel, is the only true reason to go for a turntable, is because you want to 'go for a turntable' however you want to justify that. If I didn't have a collection of vinyl, getting a turntable would be something I'd never really consider.

Actually the only true reason to go for a turntable is if you want to play records. Whether that's because you have lots of records already, or have none but you fancy the idea of collecting them, or because you like the sound of them ... whatever, at the end of the day, the spinner is just what plays them. I know plenty of people who started with no records but haven't regretted it.

The thing about records as opposed to CDs or downloads is that there is something about them that for many people makes the buying, collecting and playing of them something more than just the music. Any avid record collector (the italics are deliberate) who tells you "it's just about the music" is deluded or fibbing. I am making no value judgements here. I'm not saying if this is a good or bad thing. I'm just saying it's so - it isn't just about the sound (if it's about that at all) - it's a life style choice and one which will suit some people and not others.

On second hand records I've bought a lot, never paid a lot and had good ones and bad ones - you learn to take the crunchy with the smooth.

Record and record player maintenance is about as hard as you want to make it.

Well, even though my turntable is up for sale, I will always have a one and wouldn't ever sell any of my LP's.

Yes, it's more than just the music as certainly one of the worst things that happened to me was when our last house was flooded and many, many of my LP's ended up being effectivelycoated in Papier-mâché. The insurance settlement was very generousI still play many of those LP's -but the loss of the artwork and sleeve notes wasa major blow. I did find it interesting that I had to negotiate a settlement with the insurance company's loss adjuster for the LP's, but there was none for CD's just a fixed compensation price. Also more of the CD's ended up unplayable than LP's.

Paul

 

[Emma Royd]

Uncle Ants wrote:

rocky raccoon wrote:

Vinyl is a pain in the arse for all of the reasons listed above. If you can't be bothered with wet / vacuum cleaning records don't bother. If you can't be arsed with alignment protractors & spending hours dialling in the set up - don't bother. If you don't own more than 50 records now, don't bother.

... and I'd say this is hyperbole ... Also IMHO of course ;-)

Seriously though, do you honestly believe that the only people who get significant pleasure from vinyl assiduously wet/vacuum clean their records and spend hours fiddling with alignment protractors and dialling in setup? Most people certainly don't, though some people may like to.

:goodone:Uncle Ants of course.