dCS Bartok DAC Review - GoldenSound on YouTube

[Blzebub]

If you read the comments in his review someone asks what might make the sound "soft" and he replied:

"There's a few things that could explain it. Mediocre jitter performance, the high levels of ultrasonic noise etc. Its hard to say for certain as there isn't really any concrete research into what links subjective aspects such as softness to various objective aspects..."

Jitter? These days??

I simply don't believe the review posted in the OP. Majority rules.

 

[Miller-8]

Jitter? These days??

I simply don't believe the review posted in the OP. Majority rules.

Yes jitter is still a thing. You can choose not to believe it matters at these levels but some think differently. I would question whether the majority tested it against a good selection of competitors.

 

[Blzebub]

Yes jitter is still a thing. You can choose not to believe it matters at these levels but some think differently. I would question whether the majority tested it against a good selection of competitors.

Come off it, this review is a massive outlier. Nobody's perfect, duff reviews exist, and here is one.

 

[Miller-8]

Come off it, this review is a massive outlier. Nobody's perfect, duff reviews exist, and here is one.

Can you point to one that criticises it at all? Compares it to any competitors? Hasn't had the unit supplied by dCS?

 

[Blzebub]

Can you point to one that criticises it at all? Compares it to any competitors? Hasn't had the unit supplied by dCS?

Maybe it's me, but you're coming over as someone with "an agenda", am I right?

 

[Miller-8]

Maybe it's me, but you're coming over as someone with "an agenda", am I right?

I like GoldenSound's reviews. Don't accuse me of having an agenda, I'm merely trying to defend him from unfair criticism. Interesting that you chose to play the man rather than the ball.

 

[tuga]

Jitter? These days??

I simply don't believe the review posted in the OP. Majority rules.

It is your right to believe in what you want. It doesn’t mean that you are right.

As mentioned earlier, subjective reviews have limitations and are ultimately ... subjective. A matter of opinion. You’ll always find some that agree with your point of view and others that won’t. I gave up on magazine reviews years ago and that was one of the reasons (others were bias, poor methodology, the sometimes dodgy relation between magazines and manufactures/distributors, randomness, all praise and no criticism, no correlation between measurements and listening assessment, relativisation of serious shortcomings, technical ignorance, hype, etc.).

Measurements on the other hand don’t lie or suffer from bias (as long as they’re performed in a competent, standard manner).

Interestingly I would watch more of GoldenSound’s videos, which are proper reviews, if he weren’t always moving the camera, which makes me sick.

 I have discussed this with him and he’s looking into a solution but until then, no thanks.

 

[savvypaul]

It is your right to believe in what you want. It doesn’t mean that you are right.

Wow! You might be 'right' but that comes over as dreadfully condescending.

Do we have a 'pat on the head' emoji?

 

[Blzebub]

It is your right to believe in what you want. It doesn’t mean that you are right.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying that I find this one bad review by "Goldensound" (who?) not credible.

 

[griffo104]

I really enjoy GoldenSound's reviews, I find them detailed, thorough and he's quite balanced without chucking superlatives at everything. I was surprised at how short this review was considering we're talking high end and expensive compared to some of the previous reviews he has done.

It's also the absolute opposite of what the Abyss guys review, considering GoldenSound uses a pair of their headphones, their two reviews are at polar opposites, so just goes to show how different people listen to stuff. 

I don't really get the "soft" description he uses throughout this, maybe it just means something different to me. If only I had the money to find out.

 

[Blzebub]

Reviews are merely one person's opinion. That's all they are.

 

[StingRay]

It is your right to believe in what you want. It doesn’t mean that you are right.

As mentioned earlier, subjective reviews have limitations and are ultimately ... subjective. A matter of opinion. You’ll always find some that agree with your point of view and others that won’t. I gave up on magazine reviews years ago and that was one of the reasons (others were bias, poor methodology, the sometimes dodgy relation between magazines and manufactures/distributors, randomness, all praise and no criticism, no correlation between measurements and listening assessment, relativisation of serious shortcomings, technical ignorance, hype, etc.).

Measurements on the other hand don’t lie or suffer from bias (as long as they’re performed in a competent, standard manner).

Interestingly I would watch more of GoldenSound’s videos, which are proper reviews, if he weren’t always moving the camera, which makes me sick.

 I have discussed this with him and he’s looking into a solution but until then, no thanks.

That’s all very well as long as the measurements are accurate and they are measuring what matters. Some measurements do lie that’s why there are differences, when different people measure them. If they are all the same then they probably are accurate. But that’s rarely the case. I recall on ASR review he changed the downloaded drivers to the manufacturers ones and got quite a different result, I think 8 points on his scale. So I would not take measurements as gospel. Manufacturers often produce different figures from some tests. 

 

[Blzebub]

Interesting that you chose to play the man rather than the ball.

This isn't the only forum you've posted this review on, and then intervened repeatedly on the thread when people don't buy it - the review that is - I'd very much like to buy a Bartok!

 

[StingRay]

It is your right to believe in what you want. It doesn’t mean that you are right.

As mentioned earlier, subjective reviews have limitations and are ultimately ... subjective. A matter of opinion. You’ll always find some that agree with your point of view and others that won’t. I gave up on magazine reviews years ago and that was one of the reasons (others were bias, poor methodology, the sometimes dodgy relation between magazines and manufactures/distributors, randomness, all praise and no criticism, no correlation between measurements and listening assessment, relativisation of serious shortcomings, technical ignorance, hype, etc.).

Measurements on the other hand don’t lie or suffer from bias (as long as they’re performed in a competent, standard manner).

Interestingly I would watch more of GoldenSound’s videos, which are proper reviews, if he weren’t always moving the camera, which makes me sick.

 I have discussed this with him and he’s looking into a solution but until then, no thanks.

Why are measurements right and listeners wrong, if people like that sound and find it more accurate and pleasing then what’s the problem, it should be about enjoying the music not what measures the best?

 

[tuga]

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying that I find this one bad review by "Goldensound" (who?) not credible.

What is the rational behind that judgment?

Just because for example WHF? Is 39 or 40 years old is not reason enough to make it any more or less credible than GoldenSound. On the other hand watching one of his videoed and reading his posts on Computer Audiophile and ASR is enough for me to assess his credibility and from where I stand it is a breath of fresh air (and competence) in the stale world of audio reviewing because,as mentioned earlier, he combines  adequate methodology in his listening assessment, technical knowledge and measurements.

 

[Blzebub]

What is the rational behind that judgment?

Just because for example WHF? Is 39 or 40 years old is not reason enough to make it any more or less credible than GoldenSound. On the other hand watching one of his videoed and reading his posts on Computer Audiophile and ASR is enough for me to assess his credibility and from where I stand it is a breath of fresh air (and competence) in the stale world of audio reviewing because,as mentioned earlier, he combines  adequate methodology in his listening assessment, technical knowledge and measurements.

The rationale is majority rules, as I already said.

ASR is a junk forum, IMO.

 

[tuga]

Why are are measurements right and listeners wrong, if people like that sound and find it more accurate and pleasing then what’s the problem, it should be about enjoying the music not what measures the best?

Measurements are unbiased and quantify performance, listeners generally taste the result according to their preferences in terms of presentation and according to their favourite genres.

Very few people actually judge performance from an observational perspective, or perform an objective listening assessment if you prefer.

If someone claims that DAC A sounds better to her/him then they are right. But they cannot say that their preferred DAC is better without measurements.

 

[simon g]

If a proper review of the Bartok is needed, then read the following.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-bartok-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements

Word clock jitter is certainly not an issue with the Bartok. The Bartok offers "state of the art" performance.

The subjective review is interesting. Only subtle differences heard vs a much less costly Mytek. That's often the case, ime. The system that items are auditioned in play a large part in the end preference. 
 

It also needs to be remrmbered that the Bartok is a good streamer and is Roon ready.

 

[Miller-8]

This isn't the only forum you've posted this review on, and then intervened repeatedly on the thread when people don't buy it - the review that is - I'd very much like to buy a Bartok!

You are correct! But then I would say it this isn't the only forum where GoldenSound has been attacked.

You still haven't addressed my issues with other Bartok reviews. Cant you point to one that compares the Bartok to competitors? id very much like to watch / read it. Which reviews are persuading you to buy a Bartok?

 

[tuga]

That’s all very well as long as the measurements are accurate and they are measuring what matters. Some measurements do lie that’s why there are differences, when different people measure them. If they are all the same then they probably are accurate. But that’s rarely the case. I recall on ASR review he changed the downloaded drivers to the manufacturers ones and got quite a different result, I think 8 points on his scale. So I would not take measurements as gospel. Manufacturers often produce different figures from some tests. 

Measurements don’t lie. But a small bunch of few measurements is insufficient  able to characterise performance globally and then there’s the issue of audibly thresholds for different parameters.

The biggest issue in my view is that most of us struggle to correlate measurements and our listening experiences. The less one understands technology and is able to read graphs the more difficult it becomes.

We all have measuring tapes, we’re all able to measure the height of our speakers adequately and no one will contest the results.