dCS Bartok DAC Review - GoldenSound on YouTube

[Miller-8]

If a proper review of the Bartok is needed, then read the following.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-bartok-da-processorheadphone-amplifier-measurements

Word clock jitter is certainly not an issue with the Bartok. The Bartok offers "state of the art" performance.

The subjective review is interesting. Only subtle differences heard vs a much less costly Mytek. That's often the case, ime. The system that items are auditioned in play a large part in the end preference. 
 

It also needs to be remrmbered that the Bartok is a good streamer and is Roon ready.

Why are the stereophile measurements any more proper than GoldenSound's?

https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/12/dcs-bartok-with-headphone-amp-measurements/

 

[simon g]

You are correct! But then I would say it this isn't the only forum where GoldenSound has been attacked.

You still haven't addressed my issues with other Bartok reviews. Cant you point to one that compares the Bartok to competitors? id very much like to watch / read it. Which reviews are persuading you to buy a Bartok?

See my post above!

 

[Miller-8]

See my post above!

See mine!

 

[simon g]

Why are the stereophile measurements any more proper than GoldenSound's?

https://goldensound.audio/2021/10/12/dcs-bartok-with-headphone-amp-measurements/

I'm not interested in arguments. John Atkinson has a superb reputation and decades of proven experience. You can make your own choice, of course.

 

[Blzebub]

You are correct! But then I would say it this isn't the only forum where GoldenSound has been attacked.

You still haven't addressed my issues with other Bartok reviews. Cant you point to one that compares the Bartok to competitors? id very much like to watch / read it. Which reviews are persuading you to buy a Bartok?

Frankly, I'm not obsessed enough with Bartok reviews to go trawling through them, but I think Darko mentioned some comparisons in his review.

All the reviews I've seen or read on the Bartok have been stellar. Maybe Goldensound had blocked ears on the day of the review, perhaps no coffee, or no fags. Maybe he had a headache, or a bad back.

IOW, maybe Goldensound's review is junk, given that it's the only bad one? Is that possible?

 

[tuga]

I'd very much like to buy a Bartok!

Could this be clouding your judgment (bias)?

We humans judge with our mind and with our heart/gut. Most people will give preference to one or the other depending on many factors, some intrinsic others external, and the balance often depends on the subject as well as our knowledge of the subject.

 

[simon g]

See mine!

Contrary, aren't you?

You were asking to read reviews which make comparisons, which is exactly what happens in the Stereophile review, if you bother to read it (which you seem not to have done).

You seem to be very closed minded on this, for some reason, so I'll leave it there.

 

[griffo104]

A bit more positive review

Personally as a someone who listens through headphones for 99% of the time, and someone who has heard DCS at shows and really enjoyed the music,  I would love to be able to have this in situ at my home. 

 

[StingRay]

Measurements are unbiased and quantify performance, listeners generally taste the result according to their preferences in terms of presentation and according to their favourite genres.

Very few people actually judge performance from an observational perspective, or perform an objective listening assessment if you prefer.

If someone claims that DAC A sounds better to her/him then they are right. But they cannot say that their preferred DAC is better without measurements.

If most people find DAC A better than DAC B which may measure slightly better then which is better? What matters is better to the listener. If they enjoy listening to the music more then so be it, even if it does not measure so well. A lot of measurements don’t show anything because they are inaudible. Some people prefer analogue sound to digital. 

 

[Miller-8]

I'm not interested in arguments. John Atkinson has a superb reputation and decades of proven experience. You can make your own choice, of course.

Does he mention the ultrasonic distortion in his measurement overview? He doesn't. Why not? GoldenSound observes, "DSD upsampling on the Bartok adds a quite frankly ridiculous amount of ultrasonic noise:"

 

[Miller-8]

If most people find DAC A better than DAC B which may measure slightly better then which is better? What matters better to the listener. A lot of measurements don’t show anything because they are inaudible. Some people prefer analogue sound to digital. 

Most people or most reviewers? I've already pointed out that most reviewer were given the Bartok by dCS to review. GoldenSound was not.

 

[tuga]

The Bartok offers "state of the art" performance.

JÁ says that of almost all DACs...

My suggestion is that people ignore the conclusion of Stereophile’s measurements which generally glosses over sometime serious issues and when there are no high points JÁ will go as far as saying “but the packaging was superb”.  :cafe:

 

[Andrew_C]

The channel imbalance and ultrasonic noise are included in the Stereophile review measurements John Atkinson just doesn’t mention them.

 

[Miller-8]

The channel imbalance and ultrasonic noise are included in the Stereophile review measurements John Atkinson just doesn’t mention them.

Yes, why not?

 

[StingRay]

Most people or most reviewers? I've already pointed out that most reviewer were given the Bartok by dCS to review. GoldenSound was not.

Most people as in a group test. I take your point about manufacturers supplied gear but some reviewers only buy the gear to avoid any tweaked products. But how do you know that the GoldenSound DAC was performing within its tolerances?There may have been faults on it. Ultrasonic noise, is that audible?

 

[tuga]

If most people find DAC A better than DAC B which may measure slightly better then which is better? What matters is better to the listener. If they enjoy listening to the music more then so be it, even if it does not measure so well. A lot of measurements don’t show anything because they are inaudible. Some people prefer analogue sound to digital. 

My point is that for some people the AN DAC is the best and for others the Benchmark DAC is the best. They can’t both be right. Yes each is best for them but only one is the best performer.

That is why I think that the distinction between best-sounding and best-performing is paramount.

 

[Miller-8]

Most people as in a group test. I take your point about manufacturers supplied gear but some reviewers only buy the gear to avoid any tweaked products. But how do you know that the GoldenSound DAC was performing within its tolerances. There may have been faults on it. Ultrasonic noise, is that audible?

I get the impression you havent watched GoldenSound's review as he tells you near the start that he checked his measurements with Stereophile's after he started to realise that he wasn't enjoying the sound and the measurements matched. There was nothing wrong with his unit.

 

[Blzebub]

Could this be clouding your judgment (bias)?

We humans judge with our mind and with our heart/gut. Most people will give preference to one or the other depending on many factors, some intrinsic others external, and the balance often depends on the subject as well as our knowledge of the subject.

Given that I've never even seen one, I don't have a judgement to offer.

I'm going on reviews - all of which are stellar, other than this Goldensound one. He's an outlier, and is therefore likely to be wrong.

 

[Miller-8]

Given that I've never even seen one, I don't have a judgement to offer.

I'm going on reviews - all of which are stellar, other than this Goldensound one. He's an outlier, and is therefore likely to be wrong.

As I've already pointed out he's the only reviewer who did not receive his unit for review from dCS and he's only one of two who can run full spectral analysis measurements of devices. And of those two he's the only one who drew attention to negatives in the measurements.

 

[StingRay]

My point is that for some people the AN DAC is the best and for others the Benchmark DAC is the best. They can’t both be right. Yes each is best for them but only one is the best performer.

That is why I think that the distinction between best-sounding and best-performing is paramount.

I don’t agree. Best is what best in your system with your music, your ears, your room and your taste. Some may love Chord DACs but many hate them. If if measures better than say Benchmark does that mean it’s better. Many measurements are inaudible, so how do weight what measurements matter? People doing the measurements don’t know the answers to what makes a difference or can’t hear any difference anyway, so why put everything on measurements which may not be accurate anyway?