GR Research view on the Kef LS50 Meta

[Jezzer]

Like him or loath him, I actually agree with this guy’s review and explanation as to why this speaker sounds the way it does…

I bought a pair blind last year based on the hype but ultimately couldn’t get on with them for a couple of reasons. As I stated in my comments at the time, it’s a fine speaker for the price. I felt that the treble was excellent but I didn’t find them to be that transparent or resolving (and I couldn’t get on with their bass).

 

[Fatmarley]

The Stereophile measurements look different (Ignore below about 300hz), and if it's true that they can sound a bit fatiguing, I'd guess the Stereophile measurements are more accurate because they show a peak in the treble from about 4000hz to 10000hz, relative to the midrange.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-ls50-meta-loudspeaker-measurements
But then, ****************** measurements look different again - https://www.******************.com/forum/index.php?threads/kef-ls50-meta-review-speaker.25574/

 

[tuga]

Like him or loath him, I actually agree with this guy’s review and explanation as to why this speaker sounds the way it does…

I bought a pair blind last year based on the hype but ultimately couldn’t get on with them for a couple of reasons. As I stated in my comments at the time, it’s a fine speaker for the price. I felt that the treble was excellent but I didn’t find them to be that transparent or resolving (and I couldn’t get on with their bass).

I think that your comments regarding the treble may have two causes:

• one is that of references/habit - most speakers exaggerate the treble, and not all tweeters produce really "smooth" treble and if that's what one's used to then the LS50s will sound "wrong"; some people, perhaps out of habit, enjoy that artificial "crispness" and "liveliness", that fake sense of "resolution"

• the second one has to do with the directivity characteristics of Kef's coax, which narrows progressively from the mid-midrange upwards - what this means is that the speaker will put out less energy than normal small standmounts in the lower treble, making it sound "darker" and more "laid back/relaxed" in typical untreated rooms

I haven't listened to the Metas but the original LS50s had a slightly shelved up-treble which has been corrected in this model, and to me they sounded a bit "bright" overall, but also lacking in the sub-bass department making the addition of subs compulsory.
It is also important to note that Kef recomends a toe-in that is around 10° off axis (speakers must point slightly outwards of the listener's shoulders) in order to reduce the effects of acoustic interference produced by the coaxial driver.

Kef LS50 Meta - horizontal dispersion

Q Acoustics Q3020i - horizontal dispersion

 

[Jezzer]

Indeed, that treble is really well judged and the measurements (and parts used) reflect that. Prefer the treble balance of the LS50 to my ProAcs (but that’s all). I’ve generally preferred metal dome tweeters to silk (the tweeter in the P3ESR was great and I’ve had a couple of beryllium domed speakers). I’m tempted to go Focal for my next speakers (or ProAc with a ribbon).

 

[dave6v]

The treble region seems to be so divisive, when it comes to people's preferences; more than any other part of the sound. One person's bright is another's just right etc.

The Metas specifically are really well judged on the whole, and a relative bargain at their price, as mentioned above.

Re treble of the Metas, I found it smooth, detailed and well integrated...but occasionally still a bit crisp and bright, but generally only on the typical pop or hip hop fair. But then I lean more towards soft dome tweeters by preference.

Interestingly, some reviewers measure / describe the Meta treble as neutral and smooth, while others (Hifi World, Pursuit Perfect System, Stereophile etc), note a bright and modern sound. Shows how subjective it is.

 

[rdale]

I thought it was interesting that he thought the LS50 Metas were almost impossible to modify as you can’t get at the crossover board. I started modifying my Klipsch RP600-Ms after I watched a video of the GR Research mods for them and saw how easy to take apart they were. I did different modifications but I would call the Klipsches ‘hackable’ and the KEFs ‘not hackable’.

Based on my experience of my KEF LS50Ws I think they are pretty sensitive to room acoustics, possibly due to the wide dispersion, and that might explain the differences of opinion about the treble. The character of the treble went from ‘church hall disco shriek’ to ‘sweet and detailed’ for me as I improved my room.

 

[CnoEvil]

Based on my experience of my KEF LS50Ws I think they are pretty sensitive to room acoustics, possibly due to the wide dispersion, and that might explain the differences of opinion about the treble. The character of the treble went from ‘church hall disco shriek’ to ‘sweet and detailed’ for me as I improved my room.

I never had issues with the original - but they were in a well damped room and driven by Arcam. The descriptions I read from people who didn't get on with them, were like it was for a completely different speaker - even given subjective differences.

So it absolutely has to be a mixture of room, the quality/suitability of the upstream components and set up.

IME. The Meta version is both cleaner, smoother and a little more detailed.

 

[bigfish786]

Indeed, that treble is really well judged and the measurements (and parts used) reflect that. Prefer the treble balance of the LS50 to my ProAcs (but that’s all). I’ve generally preferred metal dome tweeters to silk (the tweeter in the P3ESR was great and I’ve had a couple of beryllium domed speakers). I’m tempted to go Focal for my next speakers (or ProAc with a ribbon).

Also give triangle speakers with the horn loaded tweeter a try. Going from focal to triangle I find the tweeter better in the triangle.

 

[Jezzer]

Also give triangle speakers with the horn loaded tweeter a try. Going from focal to triangle I find the tweeter better in the triangle.

I’ve literally just bought a pair of Focals.

Totally agree with other comments regarding taste, subjectivity, room and upstream components (synergy).

 

[bigfish786]

I’ve literally just bought a pair of Focals.

Totally agree with other comments regarding taste, subjectivity, room and upstream components (synergy).

Which Focals have you gone for?

 

[Jezzer]

Which Focals have you gone for?

Kanta N1

 

[bigfish786]

I’ve not seen the guy in the video pull any focals apart, can’t imagine there’d be any “cheesy parts“ inside… as he likes to point out.

 

[uzzy]

The top end rise from 4k is mild .. if you compare the response curve with LS35A they too have a rise at 4k,

Here is the KEF Here is the LS35A

Difference in the high frequency sound could be down to drive unit characteristics, your choice of amp, the room and what your ears like.

On paper it is more accurate than the "benchmark" LS35A . as with any speaker if you are going to buy blind without audition ensure you get it at a price that you can move it on for with little or no loss.

 

[Fatmarley]

The top end rise from 4k is mild .. if you compare the response curve with LS35A they too have a rise at 4k,

Here is the KEF Here is the LS35A

Difference in the high frequency sound could be down to drive unit characteristics, your choice of amp, the room and what your ears like.

On paper it is more accurate than the "benchmark" LS35A . as with any speaker if you are going to buy blind without audition ensure you get it at a price that you can move it on for with little or no loss.

Like I've said before, It all depends on what's going on below 300hz, because with Stereophile that's just a guess. There could be a dip from 300hz to 3000hz relative to the low frequencies. LS3/5a have a large, high Q peak in the low frequencies (Q 1.2 IIRC), due to the enclosure being too small.

If I voiced my own speakers with a 1 to 2db peak in the treble from 4000hz to 10000hz It would be quite audible and annoying on certain tracks.

 

[Fatmarley]

There's some talk of the Ls3/5a Q here - https://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index....speakers-open-baffle-speakers-the-trials.html - In that frequency response graph, It looks more like there's a dip in the lower midrange.